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Selectable Platform Support Proposed Again For Intel's DRM Driver

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  • Selectable Platform Support Proposed Again For Intel's DRM Driver

    Phoronix: Selectable Platform Support Proposed Again For Intel's DRM Driver

    It seems like every few years or so comes a patch series proposing to allow the Intel DRM driver to limit its platform support in the name of saving a few bytes from the kernel build. This week the latest "selectable platform support" patches are out there...

    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...table-Platform

  • #2
    It's sad how ancient the C toolchain is. Kernel's excessive use of headers, makefiles, and other legacy scripting tools is just bad. They're only now discussing modules for C++. LTO should be a basic core feature these days.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by caligula View Post
      It's sad how ancient the C toolchain is. Kernel's excessive use of headers, makefiles, and other legacy scripting tools is just bad. They're only now discussing modules for C++. LTO should be a basic core feature these days.
      A Kernel (or (more) Kernel parts) written in mostly safe Rust would be nice.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by debianxfce View Post

        C is fastest, rust is for people who are sleeping and should not program at all. C is safe when the programmer is not sleeping and doing null pointer assignments and buffer index overflows.

        Regards,
        Msc C/C++ software developer since 1991.
        Well Rust is also fast, in fontrendering and other areas faster than C. C is safe yes, but you have to care more about memory. Rust and all other languages are for all people, that want to use these languages, especially it's not for people who are sleeping, in these areas another language in a VM would be better (e.g. Java).

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        • #5
          Originally posted by debianxfce View Post

          C/C++ is a industry standard. Rust is not good, if it is it would be used widely. All the best software that you use is written with C/C++, kernels, gaming engines, desktops, engineering software etc.
          I find myself distinguishing more and more between C and C++, and not lumping them together. The kernel is C, so is Mesa/GLSL, innodb, postgres, redis, and memcache. I don't think it gets more high performance and lower latency than any one of those software projects. Rust is more comparable to C, and it's stated competition. Will Rust be a better C? It's still early, but I wouldn't rule it out. Go is farther ahead, and I don't think it's momentum is decreasing yet. As far as systems languages go..

          C++ has added a lot of features since 98. I'm not sure if it has as strong a niche as it used to thanks to newer languages, most of them running on some sort of VM. If you absolutely need the expressiveness and efficiency (ie. gaming), it's still the go to, but if you don't need the efficiency, you'd be better off with anything on the JVM. You'll still get similar speed and a lot of developer productivity. Java is used for distributed systems, HFT, and desktop/engineering software, and if you were starting a new project in any of those fields today, you would have legitimate choices for which language/framework to build on.

          I also don't think the people working on Rust at Mozilla or on other systems languages are "sleeping", or that the C/C++ are the only industry standards by any means.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by debianxfce View Post
            C/C++ is a industry standard.
            So was IE6...

            Originally posted by debianxfce View Post
            Rust is not good, if it is it would be used widely.
            Nice logical fallacy there, C has had decades to get millions of software projects written / Rust not so much.

            Originally posted by debianxfce View Post
            All the best software that you use is written with C/C++, kernels, gaming engines, desktops, engineering software etc.
            define: all
            define: best

            The more correct statement here is "A lot of very big projects are written in C/C++"

            In short - you can find good software written in any (non toy) language and conversely you can find very bad examples of software written in all languages.

            Programmers are human. Humans make mistakes. If you remove the ability for the humans to make mistakes then you are immediately a step ahead.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by debianxfce View Post

              C is fastest, rust is for people who are sleeping and should not program at all. C is safe when the programmer is not sleeping and doing null pointer assignments and buffer index overflows.

              Regards,
              Msc C/C++ software developer since 1991.
              .......nobody's perfect. Every single developer has made mistakes in the past, is making mistakes now and will continue to make mistakes in the future. That's just the nature of human beings. Reducing the possibility of making mistakes as much as possible, improves the quality of software considerably.

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              • #8
                I think the size savings are useful for embedded/mobile hardware - think phone/tablet, or Intel Joule devices for example. If this kind of selective support can be implemented for other drivers and parts of the kernel, the reduction in size can provide benefits such as reduction in boot/loading time, lesser space on disk and in memory etc.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by boxie View Post
                  Programmers are human. Humans make mistakes. If you remove the ability for the humans to make mistakes then you are immediately a step ahead.
                  Then we become robots. Humans learn from their own mistakes. It's an educational misdirection to take away the choice of mistakes. A mistake is often not a mistake but a new way of thinking and it opens up new areas for development. Taking away this choice leads to stagnation and decline.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by zboszor View Post

                    Then we become robots. Humans learn from their own mistakes. It's an educational misdirection to take away the choice of mistakes. A mistake is often not a mistake but a new way of thinking and it opens up new areas for development. Taking away this choice leads to stagnation and decline.
                    not all mistakes are the same. there are indeed "dumb" mistakes you want to avoid from the get go especially if it could compromise the security / well being of others. Or would you like your surgeon to operate at the wrong end, because it was decided to remove the patient-checklist to enable more "educational mistakes" again?
                    Mistakes are good for students and such while in education. Mistakes can be bad when you are working on serious stuff.

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