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  • Originally posted by bridgman View Post
    In the interests of fairness I have to point out that Intel's open source graphics team is actually larger than ours, and includes developers who have made significant contributions to the open source graphics stack (outside of just the HW driver) both before and after joining Intel.

    Thptth ! I hate having to say things like that
    Didn't know it, but still. I had E5300 on uATX Asrock P43ME for half-a-year as my main pc at home; whilst also built similar system on base of Athlon II x2 240 with uATX Asus M3N(nvidia 8300 chipset). The reason taking nvidia was 3D performance under linux. I was also forced to buy some 3D card for my P43ME build(which was 9800gt green). Note that this was half-a-year ago, and now watching phoronix and seeing what amd and nv?dia do, I have switched 9800 for hd4770 to support opensource. Back on the topic, for same money, Athlon II has better box cooler and was running generally cooler(I had to buy scythe big shuriken to replace box intel cooler(65C for E5300), where athlon II box runs COOL(40C) and QUIET); AII has coolnquiet able to drop to 800Mhz and drop voltage, whilst E5300 can go from 2.6 to 1.6Ghz without voltage drop. Athlon mobo has all-solid-caps for 50€ price, whilst I was unable to find any solid-cap board for under 80€ with ICH10(uses least power). Socket 775 is out of fab, you will have to sell ddr2, mobo, cpu on next upgrade.
    With athlon, you just sell AM2+ board with ddr2 and you done. Or you can buy CPU and set in into the old board with old ram.

    So, for me, intel is already outdated in low-price segment, with prices higher for the same build and will force you to sell everything should you deside to upgrade cpu or board.

    In the middle segment, 1150 boards are too expensive(100€ for all-solid-caps) and entry processor is i3-540, which costs another 100€ and gives 2real and 2 virtual cores. Integrated graphics are still unusable in terms of hardware performance, falling back behind comparable IGP from AMD. 200€ for what?

    Now for 80€ I get true quad core Athlon II x4, and for 65€ all-solid-cap AM3 board with integrated 4200 IGP and 4x ddr3, firewire.
    145€ for awesome cfg.

    This is plain unbeatable, and because of you, guys(AMD) effort in giving opensource 3D stack some love, I went for all-amd including selling my 9800gt green for hd4770.

    So, for me, if intel starts selling 3D capable hardware along with lowering prices I would consider it as an option(I believe what you say about human resources they put in, Mr.Bridgman).

    Besides Intel vs AMD boxed CPUs, when looking at booklets show amazing stuff - Intel :" Our Logo is COPYRIGHTED!(on front page)". AMD - "thanks for buying our product, enjoy it".


    • Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
      I'd like to see something like Flash or JAVA FX ( yeah poor choice, but still ) made 100% FOSS based on GTK, Cairo for graphics and Mozilla-tech tools for clients ( gui tools, editors etc ), and Python for scripting.
      There are about a hundred game engines that fit this description. Off hand, Delta3d, Panda3d and Blender Game Engine. They give you GUI-based editors, proper Linux support, Python scripting.

      We are not lacking tools, we are lacking an audience that could make developers' time worthwhile. (We are also lacking in driver stability, but lets ignore that for now). Even with those drawbacks, there's a steady trickle of Linux games being released every year.

      Maybe with the advent of WebGL the landscape will start to change.


      • And, to my knowledge, their input to implementing opensource stack is way lower than AMDs.
        Well yes its true that intel hardware is behind nv or ati in terms of performance, but: Its NOT as expensive as their products and consumes less TDP making battery life longer. And for the opensource support side.

        1. I can watch HD content without flickering via VA-API while you ATI guys watch crap whether or not using closed or opensource drivers.
        2. OpenGL extensions supported by the latest intel drivers is much more than other opensource stacks:

        GL_ARB_copy_buffer, GL_ARB_depth_texture, GL_ARB_depth_clamp,
        GL_ARB_draw_buffers, GL_ARB_draw_elements_base_vertex,
        GL_ARB_fragment_coord_conventions, GL_ARB_fragment_program,
        GL_ARB_fragment_program_shadow, GL_ARB_fragment_shader,
        GL_ARB_framebuffer_object, GL_ARB_half_float_pixel,
        GL_ARB_half_float_vertex, GL_ARB_map_buffer_range, GL_ARB_multisample, GL_ARB_multitexture, GL_ARB_occlusion_query, GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object,
        GL_ARB_point_parameters, GL_ARB_point_sprite, GL_ARB_provoking_vertex,
        GL_ARB_seamless_cube_map, GL_ARB_shader_objects,
        GL_ARB_shading_language_100, GL_ARB_shading_language_120, GL_ARB_shadow,
        GL_ARB_sync, GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp, GL_ARB_texture_compression,
        GL_ARB_texture_cube_map, GL_ARB_texture_env_add,
        GL_ARB_texture_env_combine, GL_ARB_texture_env_crossbar,
        GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3, GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat,
        GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two, GL_ARB_texture_rectangle,
        GL_ARB_transpose_matrix, GL_ARB_vertex_array_bgra,
        GL_ARB_vertex_array_object, GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object,
        GL_ARB_vertex_program, GL_ARB_vertex_shader, GL_ARB_window_pos,
        GL_EXT_abgr, GL_EXT_bgra, GL_EXT_blend_color,
        GL_EXT_blend_equation_separate, GL_EXT_blend_func_separate,
        GL_EXT_blend_logic_op, GL_EXT_blend_minmax, GL_EXT_blend_subtract,
        GL_EXT_cull_vertex, GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array, GL_EXT_copy_texture,
        GL_EXT_draw_buffers2, GL_EXT_draw_range_elements, GL_EXT_framebuffer_blit,
        GL_EXT_framebuffer_object, GL_EXT_fog_coord,
        GL_EXT_gpu_program_parameters, GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays,
        GL_EXT_packed_depth_stencil, GL_EXT_packed_pixels,
        GL_EXT_pixel_buffer_object, GL_EXT_point_parameters,
        GL_EXT_polygon_offset, GL_EXT_provoking_vertex, GL_EXT_rescale_normal,
        GL_EXT_secondary_color, GL_EXT_separate_specular_color,
        GL_EXT_shadow_funcs, GL_EXT_stencil_two_side, GL_EXT_stencil_wrap,
        GL_EXT_subtexture, GL_EXT_texture, GL_EXT_texture3D,
        GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc, GL_EXT_texture_cube_map,
        GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp, GL_EXT_texture_env_add,
        GL_EXT_texture_env_combine, GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3,
        GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic, GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias,
        GL_EXT_texture_object, GL_EXT_texture_rectangle, GL_EXT_texture_sRGB,
        GL_EXT_texture_swizzle, GL_EXT_vertex_array, GL_EXT_vertex_array_bgra,
        GL_3DFX_texture_compression_FXT1, GL_APPLE_client_storage,
        GL_APPLE_packed_pixels, GL_APPLE_vertex_array_object,
        GL_APPLE_object_purgeable, GL_ATI_blend_equation_separate,
        GL_ATI_envmap_bumpmap, GL_ATI_texture_env_combine3,
        GL_ATI_separate_stencil, GL_IBM_multimode_draw_arrays,
        GL_IBM_rasterpos_clip, GL_IBM_texture_mirrored_repeat,
        GL_INGR_blend_func_separate, GL_MESA_pack_invert,
        GL_MESA_texture_signed_rgba, GL_MESA_ycbcr_texture, GL_MESA_window_pos,
        GL_NV_blend_square, GL_NV_depth_clamp, GL_NV_light_max_exponent,
        GL_NV_packed_depth_stencil, GL_NV_texture_env_combine4,
        GL_NV_texture_rectangle, GL_NV_texgen_reflection, GL_NV_vertex_program,
        GL_NV_vertex_program1_1, GL_OES_read_format, GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap,
        GL_SGIS_texture_border_clamp, GL_SGIS_texture_edge_clamp,
        GL_SGIS_texture_lod, GL_SUN_multi_draw_arrays, GL_OES_EGL_image

        Just compare it...


        • Hm, then Intel has to do lots in hardware and AMD lots in software.


          • Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
            We are not lacking tools, we are lacking an audience that could make developers' time worthwhile.
            It's the old question of the cicken and the egg. Back in 1940 the CEO (or something like that) of IBM said that there would be a global market for some 5 computers at most.

            "If you build it they will come"

            BTW, the other day I installed kernel 2.6.33 and libdrm and all that stuff that makes 3D acceleration work with the opensource radeon drivers on my RS880, and I finally felt like I actually made a good decision of going the AMD way on my last PC upgrade. Oh, and I'm amazed by the fact that I installed a few libraries that aren't in the main repositories of my distro and still the system didn't break. Things have evolved a lot in the past 4 years.


            • U can surely be fine using intel's opensource stack


              • Open Source drivers seem to evolve, but can't say the same about FGLRX.


                • Originally posted by Vii7 View Post
                  Open Source drivers seem to evolve, but can't say the same about FGLRX.
                  Uhm have you tried the latest fglrx 10.5? A lot is happening behind the scene. Wine works a lot better than with 10.4 and several are reporting a lot of xvba fixes.


                  • Originally posted by Hans View Post
                    Uhm have you tried the latest fglrx 10.5? A lot is happening behind the scene. Wine works a lot better than with 10.4 and several are reporting a lot of xvba fixes.
                    That's what I have now, installed it with kanotix script.


                    • Originally posted by Vii7 View Post
                      That's what I have now, installed it with kanotix script.
                      Okay what changes do you want to see, if I may ask? Better 2d performance will arrive with fglrx 10.6 apparently.