Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

linux, the very weak system for gaming

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • gamerk2
    replied
    Originally posted by jrch2k8 View Post
    1.) kernel don't drastically change the API every 2 days and this phenomenom normally need 3 major revisions[3.2, 3.3, 3.4, 3.5<this last break api] so is not as extreme as you make it sound.
    But it exists. Hardware makers do NOT like to constantly have to update their drivers, especially since a lot of HW is sold for years at a time.

    2.)linux kernel do the same thing than any other kernel API/ABI cycle, linux is just much faster in its release cycle than the others.
    My question is why the API is in need of constant changes [specifically, removes].

    3.)thruth be told packaging blob drivers is distro responsability since no one in kernel.org expect ppl to use the great and latest without a very high technical level to begin with.
    So you are basically saying: "Non-geeks do not apply". General users are going to download/install the latest version of SW, period. If they then find their HW doesn't work, guess who's fault that is?

    4.) distros problem is that is really hard to package this blobs correctly[even when using an LTS kernel] due to their alien nature against the OS, so most of the time this frankestein breakage arent actually kernel changes but the packages breaking or users trying to get the latest drivers from external sources due to the distros slow updates for blobs that normally ends badly.
    "alien nature"? Drivers are the correct way for devices to talk to the OS; thats how it SHOULD be done. The API is the interface from which they do this, so all devices can code to one standard.

    If drivers can't be packaged easily with the OS, then either the packaging system or the OS [or both] is faulty. Stop complaining then and fix it.

    5.) sure there are ways to improve the situation like modularize the kernel [drivers and kernel] and provide an intermediate API between drivers and kernel. in fact you can even fix some issues allowing userspace driver[bluetooth, usb, i2c, pmbus, any low bandwith/latency hardware/sensors]/ kernel drivers[sata/GPU/Raid/scsi/vritualization, the big fat boys] and hybrid drivers[input/dvb/sound/etc] <-- is a titanic job but can be of benefit for stuff like security and stability and if done well drivers API/ABI stability for longer periods of time
    But doesn't those difficulties prehaps point to more underlying problems with the overall system architecture?

    Leave a comment:


  • TheCycoONE
    replied
    Originally posted by gens View Post
    let me see you mount a .bin image like that
    Pick me!
    cdemu load 0 image.cue

    Also works with toc's and cue's with isos/mp3s/oggs/etc.

    Just had to go through the pain of trying to figure out mixed mode cd images on linux and everyone telling me to just use X windows program, so I thought I'd share.

    Leave a comment:


  • D0pamine
    replied

    Leave a comment:


  • jrch2k8
    replied
    Originally posted by gamerk2 View Post
    And this is the reason no one develops for Linux: Developers will not constantly upgrade their SW because people like you feel the need to constantly re-write the Kernel API's. Then people are stuck choosing between either an old, underperforming Kernel, or unsupported HW. Then, they give up and go back to Windows.



    Mark it as unsafe. Kernel API calls should RARELY be removed, due to compatability reasons. The only time you can make an argument for doing so is in the case where you re-write the entire API from scratch [which I again note should be done very rarely, with VERY close support from the hardware devs].
    1.) kernel don't drastically change the API every 2 days and this phenomenom normally need 3 major revisions[3.2, 3.3, 3.4, 3.5<this last break api] so is not as extreme as you make it sound.

    2.)linux kernel do the same thing than any other kernel API/ABI cycle, linux is just much faster in its release cycle than the others.

    3.)thruth be told packaging blob drivers is distro responsability since no one in kernel.org expect ppl to use the great and latest without a very high technical level to begin with.

    4.) distros problem is that is really hard to package this blobs correctly[even when using an LTS kernel] due to their alien nature against the OS, so most of the time this frankestein breakage arent actually kernel changes but the packages breaking or users trying to get the latest drivers from external sources due to the distros slow updates for blobs that normally ends badly.

    5.) sure there are ways to improve the situation like modularize the kernel [drivers and kernel] and provide an intermediate API between drivers and kernel. in fact you can even fix some issues allowing userspace driver[bluetooth, usb, i2c, pmbus, any low bandwith/latency hardware/sensors]/ kernel drivers[sata/GPU/Raid/scsi/vritualization, the big fat boys] and hybrid drivers[input/dvb/sound/etc] <-- is a titanic job but can be of benefit for stuff like security and stability and if done well drivers API/ABI stability for longer periods of time

    Leave a comment:


  • gamerk2
    replied
    Originally posted by Tweenk View Post
    The problem here is the closed-source driver, not the change in kernel API. Do not upgrade your kernel if your closed-source driver supplier does not support it. If you don't want the driver supplier to prevent you from kernel upgrades, convince them to release an open-source driver.
    And this is the reason no one develops for Linux: Developers will not constantly upgrade their SW because people like you feel the need to constantly re-write the Kernel API's. Then people are stuck choosing between either an old, underperforming Kernel, or unsupported HW. Then, they give up and go back to Windows.

    What if some API function turns out later to be poorly designed / unsafe / not general enough? By never removing any functions you prevent the removal of cruft as well as a good deal of improvement.
    Mark it as unsafe. Kernel API calls should RARELY be removed, due to compatability reasons. The only time you can make an argument for doing so is in the case where you re-write the entire API from scratch [which I again note should be done very rarely, with VERY close support from the hardware devs].

    Leave a comment:


  • gens
    replied
    Originally posted by D0pamine View Post
    There is no need to use steam - there are lots of free(dom) games that are great fun, wz2100, darkplaces, xonotix ( or whatever its called now ), cube2 and so on. That said steam would make a nice addition to my xbmc htpc
    xonotic(darkplaces is the engine it runs on) is more or less the only game i play now that im finding other things more fun

    Lord Havoc, Divverent, Vortex and others are doing a great job updating it
    but keeping up with modern game engines from big companies takes a lot of effort

    still kudos to the devs, and xonotic is a great game that runs on it, kudos to xon devs too

    Leave a comment:


  • D0pamine
    replied
    Originally posted by gens View Post
    i can name a game or two that runs better then on windows, but i can name a lot of games that dont
    and as i read that is mostly true for nvidia cards(i also read a few games that run better on ati, but its really rare)

    also l4d2 runs faster on a monster computer with monster nvidia card that rarely anyone can afford (and its 30fps out of 300, not 30%)
    but as i stated few posts back that wont be true for my computer as it is CPU/memory limited, not GPU
    (opengl 4.2 and above can lift a lot of work from the cpu to gpu, but again those cards are expensive and idk a game engine that uses it)

    and yes i as everybody else agree on the vendor thing
    stiring up dust is a good way to show the vendors that we give them money for linux native games, but they arnt dumb, they calculate if its worth it to port a game
    linux for gaming will skyrocket when cheap consoles come out running the awsomly portable linux, valve is bit advanced on that part

    again, i like valve, but big companies are never to be trusted
    il trust them till a first mistake (althou not supporting LAN should be considered a big mistake)
    There is no need to use steam - there are lots of free(dom) games that are great fun, wz2100, darkplaces, xonotix ( or whatever its called now ), cube2 and so on. That said steam would make a nice addition to my xbmc htpc

    Leave a comment:


  • gens
    replied
    Originally posted by D0pamine View Post
    i think windows 'is best for gaming' is for vendor lock in reasons rather than technical reasons - isnt left for dead already outperforming the windows client by 30%

    i can name at least half a dozen examples of where this is true
    i can name a game or two that runs better then on windows, but i can name a lot of games that dont
    and as i read that is mostly true for nvidia cards(i also read a few games that run better on ati, but its really rare)

    also l4d2 runs faster on a monster computer with monster nvidia card that rarely anyone can afford (and its 30fps out of 300, not 30%)
    but as i stated few posts back that wont be true for my computer as it is CPU/memory limited, not GPU
    (opengl 4.2 and above can lift a lot of work from the cpu to gpu, but again those cards are expensive and idk a game engine that uses it)

    and yes i as everybody else agree on the vendor thing
    stiring up dust is a good way to show the vendors that we give them money for linux native games, but they arnt dumb, they calculate if its worth it to port a game
    linux for gaming will skyrocket when cheap consoles come out running the awsomly portable linux, valve is bit advanced on that part

    again, i like valve, but big companies are never to be trusted
    il trust them till a first mistake (althou not supporting LAN should be considered a big mistake)
    Last edited by gens; 08-27-2012, 10:31 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • D0pamine
    replied
    Originally posted by gens View Post
    so tell me what did i write wrong
    (except insulting your nickname and a small but loud part of the gentoo community(mind that i like the gentoo idea, and dont think that of the whole community))

    i like linux a lot too, its been my hobby for years now
    but calling it perfect is just...

    and whats wrong with having 50 programs doing the same thing
    some people like CLI, some dont (funny thing is out of all the programs translated to my language, almost all are grafical and most of those are parts of a big DE)
    smart thing would be writing a console program while thinking ahead that someone might write a gui for it, but again open source is about freedom

    and on topic:
    fact is almost all games are made for windows(dot)
    thus windows is best for gaming (i dont like it either, but its the truth)
    i think windows 'is best for gaming' is for vendor lock in reasons rather than technical reasons - isnt left for dead already outperforming the windows client by 30%

    i can name at least half a dozen examples of where this is true

    Leave a comment:


  • gens
    replied
    so tell me what did i write wrong
    (except insulting your nickname and a small but loud part of the gentoo community(mind that i like the gentoo idea, and dont think that of the whole community))

    i like linux a lot too, its been my hobby for years now
    but calling it perfect is just...

    and whats wrong with having 50 programs doing the same thing
    some people like CLI, some dont (funny thing is out of all the programs translated to my language, almost all are grafical and most of those are parts of a big DE)
    smart thing would be writing a console program while thinking ahead that someone might write a gui for it, but again open source is about freedom

    and on topic:
    fact is almost all games are made for windows(dot)
    thus windows is best for gaming (i dont like it either, but its the truth)

    and too lighten up a little a quote:

    Every program has at least one bug and can be shortened by at least one
    instruction -- from which, by induction, one can deduce that every program
    can be reduced to one instruction which doesn't work.
    Last edited by gens; 08-27-2012, 10:03 AM.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X