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Arch Linux Revolts Against ATI Catalyst Driver

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  • phoronix
    started a topic Arch Linux Revolts Against ATI Catalyst Driver

    Arch Linux Revolts Against ATI Catalyst Driver

    Phoronix: Arch Linux Revolts Against ATI Catalyst Driver

    While AMD continues to improve the ATI Catalyst Linux driver from where they were at years ago by introducing new features like CrossFire and OpenGL 3.0 support while addressing outstanding bugs, no Linux graphics driver is yet in a perfect state. As a result from our post yesterday we have read many driver complaints for both ATI and NVIDIA on Linux...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=NzEwMg

  • hunterthomson
    replied
    Originally posted by Ex-Cyber View Post
    As I understand it, kernel devs don't like standardizing the internal interfaces because they don't want to be put in a position where out-of-tree concerns end up holding more sway over the internal kernel architecture than in-tree concerns. They want to be free to reorganize, tear down and rebuild anything they think they can improve within the kernel, without being pressured to support every version of every interface going back a decade or more. OTOH they take standardization of userland<->kernel interfaces pretty seriously.
    Ok, thanks for letting me know. I guess that is a good reason and being open source should make up for changes in the structure. I meen they should let everyone know ahead of time that they will be overhalling something.
    Last edited by hunterthomson; 06-09-2009, 04:51 AM.

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  • Ex-Cyber
    replied
    As I understand it, kernel devs don't like standardizing the internal interfaces because they don't want to be put in a position where out-of-tree concerns end up holding more sway over the internal kernel architecture than in-tree concerns. They want to be free to reorganize, tear down and rebuild anything they think they can improve within the kernel, without being pressured to support every version of every interface going back a decade or more. OTOH they take standardization of userland<->kernel interfaces pretty seriously.

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  • hunterthomson
    replied
    Originally posted by mirv View Post
    ATI have probably done that as much as they can - but then we start getting into standardising interfaces, which the kernel devs don't like doing, and is one of the key issues of fglrx / kernel incompatibility. They probably do have support easily for new stuff, but due to their development cycle it'll bake for a month or two before being released (by which time things can change again). That's a con - a pro is that we get updated drivers every month!
    Hum..., standardizing is generally a good thing. I don't know the reasons why the kernel devs don't want to do it though. Maybe they have a good one. Although, Linux is Open Source. They can just look at the code and talk to the devs and make a driver that runs cherry on all distos. The Xserver and Kernel are not disto spisific. The file system layout is though, so ATI should have in place a way for distro's to easly set where stuff should be installed.

    The release cycal should not be based on things Like Ubuntu's LTR cycle. They should base it on owe... every other kernel and every Xserver. Also, from what I remember reading, the arch dev in charge of calalyst support and on the mailling list didn't think they were addressing any of the problems that were making it so hard to work with. So, new catalyst driver update every month was probably just adding to the problem not solving it.
    Last edited by hunterthomson; 06-09-2009, 04:47 AM.

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  • mirv
    replied
    Originally posted by hunterthomson View Post
    If it is so hard then why dose Intel never have a problem with Linux suport? All there drivers for Wireless, Graphics,... are always rock sold and upto date. ATI need to retool there drivers so they don't rely on stuff that is going to change in the next kernel or Xserver. They need to make it more modular so changes can be made with less effort.
    ATI have probably done that as much as they can - but then we start getting into standardising interfaces, which the kernel devs don't like doing, and is one of the key issues of fglrx / kernel incompatibility. They probably do have support easily for new stuff, but due to their development cycle it'll bake for a month or two before being released (by which time things can change again). That's a con - a pro is that we get updated drivers every month!

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  • hunterthomson
    replied
    tball: I have a Mobility FireGL v5700 wich is a HD3650...
    Here is the suport thread I started on ubuntuforums for my laptop if you would like to see all the stuff I have to do to get it to work.
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1166667

    It looks simple now that I worte that thread but it took me over a month to figure it all out (the catalyst I just found the last few tweeks for) I consider having to use a patched Xserver a major tweek.

    But ya was to genoral about the catlayst not working. It dosn't work with my card with any of the suported distors with out major tweeking.

    But ya isn't Arch the s/h/i/t

    Note, the Intel wifi driver problem is not a problem with the driver it is a problem with Ubuntu. It works fine in Arch. Flash is also a problem in Ubuntu but works fine is Arch. In Ubuntu when I play video games like supertuxkart the game thinks I am pressing joydown all the time but in Arch that is not a problem
    Last edited by hunterthomson; 06-09-2009, 03:56 AM.

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  • hunterthomson
    replied
    Originally posted by alec View Post
    You are being unfair to ATI/AMD
    Video part of linux, xorg, 3d and 2d stuff is a mess. Yes its a progressing mess, but it only means that driver devs need to keep up with changes in the mess.

    And in the end we win, because oss driver gets more attention.
    If it is so hard then why dose Intel never have a problem with Linux suport? All there drivers for Wireless, Graphics,... are always rock sold and upto date. ATI need to retool there drivers so they don't rely on stuff that is going to change in the next kernel or Xserver. They need to make it more modular so changes can be made with less effort.
    Last edited by hunterthomson; 06-09-2009, 03:47 AM.

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  • tball
    replied
    Originally posted by hunterthomson View Post
    I am and Archlinux Lover. I have tried many other distro's (Ubuntu being the most used and it is vary good for what it is, Bloated) but I can't stand to use them anymore now that I have gotten a tast of what a Linux OS sould be like. Anyone who has not used Archlinux should try it out. Arch dose what you tell it to do, works and "Says Working". Unlike Ubuntu that just randomly brakes 90% of the time do to all the bloated packaged that I never use and the fact that it installs Every driver known to the Ubuntu dev's. Then 6 month latter the whole bug hunt starts agin. But, Ubuntu is the best distro if you know nothing about Linux.

    I messed up and thought that ATI had good Linux support. I feel like a dumbass now. ATI suport is a joke. The catalyst dosn't work in SUSE, Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, which is clames to support, without major tweeking. This is no joke, the ATI catalyst is complet crap and there is no hope for it getting better.

    While it sucks that the Catalyst is not supported by Arch now and is left up to the comunity. I have the AUR package installed... That was not hard. The current maintainer has it set up nice and patched to work with 2.6.29 (Though Arch will be on 2.6.30 soon). The hard part was getting it to work. I first did it in Ubuntu becuase Ubuntu is officially supported. Learnd all the tricks to get it to work and then applied what I learnd to Archlinux. Now a month and a half latter I finaly found all the tweeks and pached Xserver and all this crap to get it to work.

    So, I was pissed at first but ATI needs a wake up call. Good for you Arch devs. Drop support, I don't expect you to have to deal with this POS catalyst. I am never buying ATI ever agin. I am not even going to buy AMD. I don't even care if I have to pay 10 times more for nVidia or AMD has some super cool CPU. Now, Intel that is a company to support. I love Intel as much as I love Arch
    I agree 105 % the first part of your post. I have moved to Arch recently and I love it. Especially AUR

    But I don't at all have had those bad experiences with ati you got. Which gfx card do you have? My 3650 have always worked with Ubuntu, Suse and Arch without any problems installing it. Though I have had some struggle booting to X with Ubuntu without the option DefaultDepth 24.

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  • alec
    replied
    You are being unfair to ATI/AMD
    Video part of linux, xorg, 3d and 2d stuff is a mess. Yes its a progressing mess, but it only means that driver devs need to keep up with changes in the mess.

    And in the end we win, because oss driver gets more attention.

    Leave a comment:


  • hunterthomson
    replied
    Boy this is and old thread but I would just like to add my 2cents

    I am an Archlinux Lover. I have tried many other distro's (Ubuntu being the most used and it is vary good for what it is, Bloated) but I can't stand to use them anymore now that I have gotten a tast of what a Linux OS sould be like. Anyone who has not used Archlinux should try it out. Arch dose what you tell it to do, works and "Says Working". Unlike Ubuntu that just randomly brakes 90% of the time do to all the bloated packaged that I never use and the fact that it installs Every driver known to the Ubuntu dev's. Then 6 month latter the whole bug hunt starts agin. But, Ubuntu is the best distro if you know nothing about Linux.

    I messed up and thought that ATI had good Linux support. I feel like a dumbass now. ATI suport is a joke. The catalyst dosn't work in SUSE, Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, which is clames to support, without major tweeking. This is no joke, the ATI catalyst is complet crap and there is no hope for it getting better.

    While it sucks that the Catalyst is not supported by Arch now and is left up to the comunity. I have the AUR package installed... That was not hard. The current maintainer has it set up nice and patched to work with 2.6.29 (Though Arch will be on 2.6.30 soon). The hard part was getting it to work. I first did it in Ubuntu becuase Ubuntu is officially supported. Learnd all the tricks to get it to work and then applied what I learnd to Archlinux. Now a month and a half latter I finaly found all the tweeks and pached Xserver and all this crap to get it to work.

    So, I was pissed at first but ATI needs a wake up call. Good for you Arch devs. Drop support, I don't expect you to have to deal with this POS catalyst. I am never buying ATI ever agin. I am not even going to buy AMD. I don't even care if I have to pay 10 times more for nVidia or AMD has some super cool CPU. Now, Intel that is a company to support. I love Intel as much as I love Arch
    Last edited by hunterthomson; 06-09-2009, 03:26 AM.

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