Talk Of VIA Getting Back Into The x86 CPU Space With Zhaoxin

[starshipeleven]

Intel already patented their extended ISAs like SSE or AVX. The ISA, not hardware

For hardware implementing that ISA it's valid, for pure software emulation it's a "rectangle with rounded edges" kind of patent as you can't patent a software interface (it's a copyright thing, IF it is a thing at all), so it's good for legal trolling only.

As said, Intel is big enough (and sees this as critical enough) to sue everyone and their dog to oblivion and even seriously harass same-sized corporations like MS, so what I said is effectively pointless nipticking, they can and will do all they can to shut down what they perceive as a threat.

QEMU for example isn't a threat because while it can emulate SSE and whatnot it runs like complete garbage so it's never going to threaten Intel.

[phuclv]

Who said that software emulators need to care about hardware patents.

Intel already patented their extended ISAs like SSE or AVX. The ISA, not hardware

[starshipeleven]

Who said that open source software is allowed to violate patents?

Who said that software emulators need to care about hardware patents.

The software emulator is just showing the same interface as the hardware and providing the same result as the patented hardware, unless someone has patented an interface (how? that's copyright bro) anything goes. This is a Oracle Vs Google case, patents are not relevant.

Now this does not stop Intel from suing you into oblivion with legal trolling if they feel threatened, but that has nothing to do with the legality of what you are doing.

Intel has attempted to sue various companies that emulate the x86 instruction set like Transmeta.

Wrong, The story was that Transmeta sued Intel over patents as a last bid to save itself, and then they year after that Inter counter-sued saying their patents are bullshit.

I'm not a lawyer but you can follow these discussions

Where other non-laywyers post their own opinions? Yeah totally worthy use of time. That's basically wikipedia.

[phuclv]

QEMU emulates an x86 CPU, and it is open source software, no intel license required. How is this different from what is proposed here?

Who said that open source software is allowed to violate patents? There are lots of useful features that were never allowed to be implemented in OSS even though the specs for them are already opened, or reverse engineered

See What features cannot be implemented in open-source software due to legal restrictions (like patents and licenses)?

Does x86 emulation reduce the patent problems?

No. Intel has attempted to sue various companies that emulate the x86 instruction set like Transmeta. The latest one being MS though I don't know how MS can finally release Windows on ARM with x86 emulation, but probably it only support the old ISAs where patents already expired, along with other arrangements

Intel fires warning shots at Microsoft, claims x86 emulation is a patent minefield

I'm not a lawyer but you can follow these discussions

• Does it require a license to make a software or hardware emulator of some ISA like x86, ARM, AIM, etc.?
• Are software emulator implementations of patented instruction sets ISAs without a license legal?

[WorBlux]

QEMU emulates an x86 CPU, and it is open source software, no intel license required. How is this different from what is proposed here?

I don't think the patents cover software, but once you start adding hardware instructions to accelerate x86 specifically is where you can run into trouble.

[the_scx]

I understand that the Chinese government is very interested in a system they do control (nearly-own CPU) but why do they use some Windows variant then and destroy all the efforts with their own CPU+chipset?

They also use Linux, especially Ubuntu Kylin, NFS China, NeoKylin, iSoft Server OS, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBDMRTA04MM&t=03m49s

http://en.zhaoxin.com/about.aspx?id=1
"We build a full end-to-end solution with from underground hardware to the up-level software applications. These solutions are compatible with x86 applications and supports the domestic BIOS; as well as a whole series of Microsoft Windows and most Linux variants - including Ubuntu, NeoKylin, iSOFT, NFS-China, Redhat, and CentOS. In addition, many domestic Independent Software Vendors (ISV) like Kingsoft and DM have collaborated with us."

[Adarion]

much info on the ZX CPUs

Thanks a lot for the information and translation! Even though probably a good bunch is still more or less VIA related it's interesting to see a third/fourth party to the x86 world again. But then, I wonder how far this will reach.
I understand that the Chinese government is very interested in a system they do control (nearly-own CPU) but why do they use some Windows variant then and destroy all the efforts with their own CPU+chipset?

[rene]

Never made mass production. Sampled through Fujitsu and TSMC and went no further.

VIA does hold several patents in ARM/x86 processing integration however.

you know about sampling 'cause you have inside knowledge? sounds like an expensive, but certainly "fun" way to burn thru money ,-)

[the_scx]

I made a mistake with the codenames: http://wstaw.org/m/2018/01/03/Zhaoxin_CPU_roadmap5.jpg
- ZX-C/ZX-C+ = codename "Zangjiang G" ("Kaixian" for ZX-C+ 4-core CPU, "Kaisheng" for ZX-C+ 8-core CPU)
- ZX-D = codename "Wudaokou"
- ZX-E = codename "Lujiazui"

Short history of Zhaoxin: http://en.zhaoxin.com/about.aspx?id=4

Benchmark: https://forums.anandtech.com/threads...#post-39242685
Zhaoxin KX-5000 (ZX-D) @ 2.0GHz (8C/8T) seems to be similar to Intel Core i7-6700K @ 2.0GHz (4C/8T) at Fritz Chess Benchmark.

Elite graphics processor: "the performance of the Elite GPU basically reached the level of Intel's desktop HD GRAPHICS, part of the performance is better than it."

Popularity/Adoption:
"Zhaoxin Semiconductor, a leading China maker of x86 processors, expects its annual CPU sales to double for two consecutive years in 2017-18 due to its successful penetration into government procurement platforms and new application segments such as thin clients, AI (artificial intelligence) monitoring, industrial control machines, and cloud servers, the firm's vice president Fu Cheng has disclosed.
(...)
Fu said that KX-5000 series processors are equipped with Window 10 government-version operating system provided by C&M Information Tech, a joint venture between Microsoft and China Electronics Technology Group. Many China-made computer devices such as Lenovo M6100 desktops, Lenovo CF03-T notebooks, Tongfang Chaoxiang Z8304 desktops and Biens XCD 10 micro desktops have adopted KX-5000 processors and tapped into the procurement platform of Shanghai city government, Fu added." (Jean Chu, Shanghai; Willis Ke, DIGITIMES, 2017.11.09)

[aht0]

I already hate anti-SPAM mechanism on this forum. Here is my message: http://wklej.org/hash/80c57b6366d/txt/

Anti-spam measures here are half-pointless. Yeah, sure for new user. But applying it to a user older than 1y and with hundreds of posts to date - it seems overhead without reason behind it. No bot is going to be "sleeping agent" for that long for some eventual advertising.