Intel Announces CPU With HBM2 Memory & AMD Graphics

[arunbupathy]

At first glance I thought that it was a stupid move by AMD. But with proper execution, this just might work out well for AMD. They not only get cash, but also get some brand recognition (unless Intel decides to do some really shady thing by not advertising that the graphics are powered by Radeon).

Some (including me) were concerned that AMD might be shooting themselves in the foot. But on much thought, I don't think so. It is not like AMD has much to lose because as the only people who buy AMD are the ones who already know about them. They're not going to lose those customers if they keep providing good products. As for people who want the best of both worlds, now there is a solution!!! It seems like it's a combined win for Intel and (more pressingly) AMD who can fight nVidia and keep them in check, and a win for us the users.

As another member mentioned, this also seems like AMD are confident that this collaboration won't affect their own Zen/Zen+ CPUs. It means that AMD are confident about their CPU designs as well as GPU designs, which can only be a good thing. Also, I suppose AMD will only supply the chips to Intel. This is in line with what Lisa Su said that they are "not looking at enabling Intel to compete with their own products". I believe that the rumors about the GPU licensing deal with Intel were true. But AMD couldn't just sell their entire GPU IP, because they'll lose their unique advantage. To me, it seems like a genius move by AMD to say, "We won't sell you our entire IP, but we can make a compromise. We'll supply the GPUs, you can package them and sell them all you want, but give us some recognition (and sweet cash). That way it's a win for both of us (and customers)!"

[smitty3268]

I know you'll all just skip over this comment and post away anyway, but I'll mention it just for the record:

These cpu's are still going to have an Intel GPU on them, and it will be the default. The AMD gpu is on for use as a secondary GPU, the same way current intel laptops have NVidia discrete graphics as a second option when you need faster performance.

So the driver is certainly going to come from AMD, just like NVidia's currently come from NVidia. And you won't see less Intel developers working on their linux driver - it's still the default experience, and you'll get the same experience you always have from them. You'll just hopefully see a bit better PRIME setup since all the drivers are OSS and can work together better.

[Marc Driftmeyer]

People seem to be oblivious of the Toshiba memory consortium purchase. SK Hynix and Apple [especially Apple] invested in getting that business for $18.1 Billion. The licensing between members for their portfolio and availability expansion of HBM2 seems rather timely concerning Apple's all-in with Vega and HBM2.

More than anything, this is Intel licensing IP from AMD to keep Apple from dumping them completely, outside of LTE modem for wireless needs. This agreement most likely doesn't even exist w/o Zen/Vega/HBM2 and Apple iMac Pro and future Mac Pro having options other than Intel.

Ultimately, with Thunderbolt opening up Apple can dump Intel all-together in 2018 and go Zen+/Zen2 Vega/Navi with their own custom boards adding TBolt 3 and never looking back.

AMD wins either way. SK Hynix needs Apple's business, AMD needs Apple's business, Intel's leveraged the hell out of Apple's business for 10 years. Samsung just lost out to LG for Apple OLED in 2018 and beyond: a reason the CEO of Samsung retired and conceded the future more dim than their latest quarter benefiting from Apple's iPhone X contract and much more. Samsung jacked up all the prices on HBM2 as SK Hynix had not the resources to provide large quantities.

AMD suffered, gaming suffered and only Miners got the bits available, at inflated prices.

After the Toshiba deal, within 45 days we have all this news, AMD's GPGPU lines are MSRP again, availability for all is common and everyone is peeing themselves over this Intel announcement?

The big deal is how AMD, SK Hynix, TSMC, Apple and anyone not Intel and Samsung fair, never mind Nvidia still a one trick pony no one cares about beyond their demoed AI smart systems and Gaming.

Intel isn't worried about Nvidia taking them on in CPU market. They are worried Apple's ready for a divorce and AMD enjoys the double dating.

Awesome, now we get tearing graphics on laptops too! I always avoid AMD graphics because frankly they have always sucked on linux. I liked that most laptops had boring old "intel graphics." Why must everything have #%#$#$ gaming GPUs? The "gaming" man babies have ruined computing.

It's 2017, maybe give modern-day AMD and Intel graphics a try before spreading misinformation.

[vito]

Hopefully this makes Intel abandon their OpenCL implementation (i.e. Beigenet) in favor or something that works on Radeon (and Intel) GPUs. Perhaps it is time for Mesa Clover to be resurrected?

Lack of decent and easily accessible OpenCL implementation on Radeon cards is the only reason why we still use Nvidia for number crunching at work. Getting ROCm to work on up to date distros is PITA.

My hope is that this changes in the near future - hopefully once the kernel 4.15 is out, ROCm will work in userspace so it is easy to install on up to date distros like Fedora. Until then, the test Vega cards we got as a proof of concept are collecting dust in the bin.

[eggbert]

Awesome, now we get tearing graphics on laptops too! I always avoid AMD graphics because frankly they have always sucked on linux. I liked that most laptops had boring old "intel graphics." Why must everything have #%#$#$ gaming GPUs? The "gaming" man babies have ruined computing.

[Mabhatter]

I guess AMD will take care of it. I guess it won't be too different from what they have now, so not much work - "just" the connections and intel's power management / distribution thing.
Even if intel would block something or AMD would lack people, remember that PS... 3 4? whatever hack where people were just using the free driver stack on Gentoo after they had hacked into the device? I think it shouldn't be too different here.

Also it seems that AMD is also trusting their own Zen / future Zen+/2 designs to be competitive even with intel+Radeon APUs. Good thing that. Besides, it gives them opportunity to sell some chip in the competition with Nvidia.

It’s not really a threat to AMD directly. As much as we lov the scrappy underdogs, AMD will never get past the 30% range in CPUs. They never broke that long before. First, there’s whole markets that just won’t buy AMD CPUs but love ATI graphics. Like Apple, and pretty much any Enterprise level PC shopper and IT department. Fab is getting pretty scarce right now. Only a few places offer the highest end Fab, and between Consoles (Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo) (a lot if IBM Fab there) and Mobile devices (Apple & Samsung) the available Fab is critically full.

If AMD is “renting” the design to Intel, and Intel is facing on last-gen CPU processes then its a double win for AMD to get paid and not have to deal with manufacturing and QA.

[Mabhatter]

I wonder how hard Microsoft and Sony screwed AMD down in price in order for AMD to get their chips into the Xbox and PS4?

I wonder if MS and Sony helped bring AMD and Intel together to make this chip?

AMD doesn’t own Fab anymore so price isn’t as drastic a problem if they get a consistent royalty paycheck. And 3-7 years from one design and a few speed bumps is easy money.

[Mabhatter]

Inb4 all of these exclusively go into Macbooks.

That was the first thought. Apple and ATI (now AMD) have a very long relationship. Frankly Apple is tired of Intel’s shenanigans with forcing computer makers to choose crappy, three-yo, integrated graphics or building out a full PCIE bus just for one chip. I’d guess Apple is knocking on Intel’s door with threats to go to that new Ryzen Mobile chip, now that Thunderbolt isn’t Intel’s hostage Apple is big enough to sorce the chips and eat the cost.

funny how after nearly ten years of Intel holding the notebook graphics market hostage it’s broken like this. The only company with enough balls and money to beat up Intel is Apple.

[existensil]

Uh, Intel is using EMIB here and it is an extremely advanced interconnect that allows for compact and high-speed I/O between completely different pieces of silicon made by completely different manufacturers on completely different lithographic processes. It's light years ahead of putting some traces on a PCB to connect to chips together like has been done since the 1970s. Additionally, it's vastly more efficient than requiring a massive silicon interposer that is cost prohibitive.

Maybe AMD getting access to that sweet interconnect technology is part of the deal. AMD has pretty much bet on glued dies so working with a competitor in exchange for better glue might be a good trade. Plus, the obvious revenue.

I'm sure Apple played a big role in pushing Intel into this. Hope AMD made the most of the bargaining position they were in.