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GStreamer Now Supports Multi-Threaded Scaling/Conversion For Big Performance Win

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  • #31
    Originally posted by jacob View Post
    You clearly have absolutely no clue.
    let's see
    Originally posted by jacob View Post
    Rust has a dependency on C++ to build the COMPILER and on llvm to RUN THE COMPILER.
    lol. that is what i said
    Originally posted by jacob View Post
    Binaries compiled from Rust source code don't require either.
    i never said they do.
    Originally posted by jacob View Post
    Ergo: a hypothetical rewrite of GStreamer in Rust would *NOT* mean that GStreamer would suddenly start depending on LLVM.
    hypothetical rewrite of gstreamer would mean someone has to spend time on rewrite. while even rust devs do not want to spend time to rewrite their compiler. that is what i said. so who has absolutely no clue?
    Last edited by pal666; 25 February 2017, 04:54 PM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by mulenmar View Post
      And now you're not even a funny troll, just an utter liar.
      now you are idiot. if you meant "rewrite in c" instead of "rewrite anything written in c" then it is just random assertion with zero relevance to our discussion. i.e. strawman. i never said someone is asking me to rewrite in c and i never asked someone else to do any rewrite

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      • #33
        Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
        Why does this matter to you?
        i am trying to demonstrate that nobody is going to rewrite their software in your toy language of the day for you. even authors of said language.
        Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
        Is GLSL a toy language because GLSL compilers aren't written in GLSL?
        why are you asking this, did someone propose to rewrite all software in glsl? it is niche language with very narrow niche
        Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
        The whole point of LLVM is to be a generalized compiler framework that lots of different languages can use.
        the whole point of gstreamer is media framework, still someone demands for it to be rewritten in rust.
        Last edited by pal666; 25 February 2017, 04:55 PM.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by pal666 View Post
          now you are idiot. if you meant "rewrite in c" instead of "rewrite anything written in c" then it is just random assertion with zero relevance to our discussion. i.e. strawman. i never said someone is asking me to rewrite in c and i never asked someone else to do any rewrite
          Okay, let me spell this out for you.

          C is a toy language with regard to today's problems. "A toy language is a computer programming language that lacks the requirements to create reliable, maintainable computer programs in a production environment." Decades of tool creation has not helped sufficiently, only kept the whole house of cards from collapsing entirely...aside from thousands of security holes, segfaults, etc etc. You're complaining about people wanting to get away from what is, by modern standards, a toy language.

          C++, Java, Ruby, Scheme, Haskell, OCaML...all were created, among other reasons, because C wasn't a good enough tool for the job, and each has its own issues. C++ is so crufty nobody can master the language enough to know what parts they're supposed to avoid (to oversimplify it); Java requires a massive runtime and garbage collection; and so on.

          Actual software, from librsvg, to Mozilla's Firefox browser (which now requires Rust support) to Red Hat's ldap servers, are being rewritten in Rust, piece by piece, and extremely successfully. A new operating system, Redox, is being quickly and, comparatively, easily written from scratch in Rust, using both the language's safety guarantees and proven-safer architectures. These are huge projects that would not be advancing if the job was a pointless "let's rewrite X in Y for no damn reason" -- any lead software engineer would shut it down in a heartbeat.

          Rust and Cargo have learned from decades of research into avoiding the pitfallls of many different approaches to programming. Rust was designed pragmatically, too -- you can easily call existing C code from Rust, or you can call Rust code from C. The memory model is the same. There's no garbage collection involved. Run-time performance has no overhead compared to C. The language specification is stable. The reasons other "C-replacement" languages have failed have been corrected enough to no longer be practically-relevant.

          Nobody is asking you to rewrite anything in a toy language, such as C. Rust is no more a toy language than a division of a modern army is a child's box of toy soldiers.

          Nobody is asking for every rewrite of old C code to be done in Rust, either. Haskell, Python, Lua, and the like all have their places.

          And nobody is asking for your whining, pal. Don't like the rewriting? Don't participate in the project, then. Don't think it can be done? Get out of the way of the people who are and have been doing it.

          Originally posted by pal666 View Post
          the whole point of gstreamer is media framework, still someone demands for it to be rewritten in rust.
          ...and what exactly do you think a "media framework" does? It involves parsing a fuckton of data from untrusted sources (random videos from the Internet, etc) which
          is prone to very common and subtle errors. Errors which are then exploited to execute code, elevate privileges...whatever can be gotten away with. Only those vulnerable parts need rewritten; the new versions are checked by rustc to make sure it's mathematically impossible for those bugs to be present; then those parts can be easily used by the rest of the existing code -- which is one of the biggest points of Rust's design.
          Last edited by mulenmar; 26 February 2017, 03:02 PM.

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          • #35
            A language that cant spell is a toy language.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
              Why does this matter to you? Is GLSL a toy language because GLSL compilers aren't written in GLSL?
              No one is suggesting anyone rewrite gstreamer in GLSL. It is a niche language for a niche purpose, not a general-purpose language.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by mulenmar View Post

                Okay, let me spell this out for you.

                C is a toy language with regard to today's problems. "A toy language is a computer programming language that lacks the requirements to create reliable, maintainable computer programs in a production environment." Decades of tool creation has not helped sufficiently, only kept the whole house of cards from collapsing entirely...aside from thousands of security holes, segfaults, etc etc. You're complaining about people wanting to get away from what is, by modern standards, a toy language.
                You don't get to arbitrarly redefine words to mean what you want. Countless people have created enormous amounts of "reliable, maintainable computer programs in a production environment" by any useful definitions of those words. Your quote doesn't say "perfect programs", there is no such thing. It doesn't say "bug-free programs", there is no such thing.

                I have no truck in the C vs. Rust debate, but to claim that by far the most critical programming language for just about everything everywhere is a "toy language" is so completely out-of-touch with reality that I am frankly dumbfounded anyone could seriously say it.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by uid313 View Post
                  I have no experience with either the Rust language or the GStreamer code base.
                  Then why do you think that your proposal would actually help anything?

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post

                    Then why do you think that your proposal would actually help anything?
                    It seems pretty obvious doesn't it? I don't actually use gstreamer. I'm lucky enough that Gentoo devs have worked real hard to make certain gstreamer can be removed. Thank god for that. Because it suffers from a whole slew of bugs and escalation flaws that are not possible in Rust programs. In todays world Gstreamer is one of the most blatent attack surfaces on most linux distro's. Basically all of them would be better off completely removing it. The second option is rewrite it in a better language like rust.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post

                      You don't get to arbitrarly redefine words to mean what you want. Countless people have created enormous amounts of "reliable, maintainable computer programs in a production environment" by any useful definitions of those words. Your quote doesn't say "perfect programs", there is no such thing. It doesn't say "bug-free programs", there is no such thing.

                      I have no truck in the C vs. Rust debate, but to claim that by far the most critical programming language for just about everything everywhere is a "toy language" is so completely out-of-touch with reality that I am frankly dumbfounded anyone could seriously say it.
                      I was exaggerating, since I'm dealing with a troll anyway. :P C is much too easy to create problems for me to want to write it when avoidable, though. Dat Nethack codebase... *shudder*

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