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Debian Brought Back To Life On M68K-Based Amigas

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  • #21
    Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
    If you have enough coding skills to port debian to amiga you sure have enough skills to do something that might be useful.
    Did you ever think that maybe he has the skill to do things like this BECAUSE he finds such tasks fun and educational?

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    • #22
      Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
      I don't agree, because I consider KDE is far more usable than Unity, Windows and OS X. For me Windows is unusable and that's why I wiped it out. The only thing that keeps people using m$ OS is software and drivers, sometimes. There are no other reasons, because it's broken like hell. It's proprietary mess, so we can't do a thing to make it usable and fix its brokenness. It sucks.
      So very true! I only use Windows to play games on. Thank goodness Steam is finally coming to Linux.

      You know what the most entertaining thing in the world is? Recently the other Linux administrator where I work left, and I told the Manager that I'd like one of the Windows Administrators to replace him. So now (for the second time) I get a Windows Administrator to switch to Linux, and I always here comments like "why doesn't Windows do this?" and "I hate how Microsoft does things." etc.

      Yesterday he was completely fed up with Windows 7 and Office 2010. When he went to install Office, it popped up some weird error, he looked it up and it literally said that Office 2010 couldn't install on that operating system because it wasn't Windows XP, Vista, 7 or Server. Seriously, wtf? Then it said he had to download some other installer. But to do so, he had to have a Microsoft account.

      It's absurd that they can't even get their own crap to work with itself smoothly. This was on a freshly installed system too.

      I don't know anyone who uses Unity, and I know a lot of people that still like Ubuntu (I don't because they've had too many times when an update was ran, but then grub gets jacked, or the kernel does or whatever. Only once have I had that issue with Debian, and that's because I accidentally said no to updating grub with UUIDs.)

      Sorry for going off-topic. I don't honestly see why anyone would whine over m68k being brought back to the Debian archives. Debian after all is the Universal Operating System. It's not like they're forcing any other distributions to be ported. I think Ubuntu only really supports x86 and ARM anymore, didn't they drop support for PPC?

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      • #23
        So maybe there is a spark of hope for the ECS Amigas too... :-)

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        • #24
          Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
          Those two links don't inspire me running a Debian OS at a good enough speed. I mean Processor: Coldfire MCF5474, 264 MHz, 400 MIPS? C'mon! Buy an x86.
          Did it ever occur to you that noone owes you their time?

          Also, did you ever bother to think through the performance/power equations for running Atari /Amiga software*, or stop to think that some people might not care about frequency?
          *There is at least one Atari emulator that runs ~native speed on m68k. So someone can run Linux without losing here.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
            Those two links don't inspire me running a Debian OS at a good enough speed. I mean Processor: Coldfire MCF5474, 264 MHz, 400 MIPS? C'mon! Buy an x86.
            Exactly what Ibidem said. Frequencies on x86 != Frequencies on m68k or any other architecture.

            Sadly because people are stupid, that's one of the main reasons Apple went to x86, because IBM and the others who make PPCs weren't cranking up the MHz/GHz numbers fast enough.

            It's all perception, no one has given a crap about the raw MHz. The MIPS on the other hand, is what you want to look at, and from looking at the wikipedia entry on that;

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructions_per_second

            There are some Freescale processors that have more MIPS and yet don't require the cooling / power that the Intel processors use. They would be perfect in routers, modems, switches, network appliances, etc.

            Not everything that Linux does is for desktop usage.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
              Well it has 400 MIPS so it's pretty obvious it won't conquer an i7 for now at least. In embedded things it might have a use, but I don't know if Debian is the right choice for embedded devices. I thought that embedded devices based themselves on a different 'distro' of linux. Can't remember the name right now.
              Well Debian can serve as a distribution base for other distributions to build upon. Such as Ubuntu builds upon Debian.

              Embedded devices use ?ngstr?m distribution and OpenEmbedded.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                Those two links don't inspire me running a Debian OS at a good enough speed. I mean Processor: Coldfire MCF5474, 264 MHz, 400 MIPS? C'mon! Buy an x86.
                x86 isn't the right choice for everyone.
                It may not be available, it may be too expensive, it may not be trusted, it may considered to lack transparency or not have a certain instruction, feature or property.

                If you use a CPU in space, airplane, automobile, robotics then perhaps x86 isn't the right choice.
                If you use a CPU for national security, then maybe a American Intel isn't the best choice.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                  Well it has 400 MIPS so it's pretty obvious it won't conquer an i7 for now at least. In embedded things it might have a use, but I don't know if Debian is the right choice for embedded devices. I thought that embedded devices based themselves on a different 'distro' of linux. Can't remember the name right now.
                  uClinux is probably what you're referring to, which by the way is also ported to the m68k.

                  But if you really want to know other examples of Debian on embedded devices, Raspberri Pi, Nokia N900, Nokia N9, etc. Granted some may not think that cell phones and little boards like the Raspberry Pi are 'embedded' but they certainly are and can be.

                  Debian is an excellent base for many things. Even the hacks for iCrap devices utilize apt-get.

                  Hmmm, ami-get install spaceballs-demo... how cool would that be on an Amiga...

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                    Well it has 400 MIPS so it's pretty obvious it won't conquer an i7 for now at least. In embedded things it might have a use, but I don't know if Debian is the right choice for embedded devices. I thought that embedded devices based themselves on a different 'distro' of linux. Can't remember the name right now.
                    Do you happen to mean EmDebian?
                    (See also http://wiki.debian.org/Embedded_Debian and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian#Embedded_systems)
                    I've also run across quite a few people enquiring about Debian for various embedded applications.
                    I also note debwrt and the former maemo.
                    Open Embedded and related distros, which use ipkg/opkg, have a package manager which is very close to Debian's dpkg. In fact, according to http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/...ly/000496.html, the format is close enough to .deb that you can install .deb packages with ipkg or opkg!

                    Debian aims to be "The Universal Operating System" and IMHO they have succeeded fairly well.
                    Debian is one of ~2-3 major freely available projects that provide ports and patches to make software run on minor architectures; referring to the Debian packaging, source mirrors, and patches can be a real help even if you build from scratch.

                    Regarding m68k vs i7: how fast does an i7 emulate m68k (remember what I said about Atari emutors), and how does it compare at that for power efficiency?

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