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The Ideal (Hypothetical) Gaming Processor

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  • #61
    real time means the rendering is finished in time to push the data to the output buffer.
    ok there we have it, you are constructing a final image to put into the buffer to be displayed.

    Your frames per second would be how often you do this complete transfer per second.
    You would have tearing because your transfer is not in sync with the screen refresh rate. (meaning your updating the frame buffer as the hardware reads it to display on the screen)
    You use murmuring to decrease the time to render, thus maintaining a frame rate or higher framerate than without murmuring.

    Ray tracing is no different than rasterization in that it does computational work in order to produce a 2d image for display. Both can use different techniques to shorten the time it takes to produce the final image. In fact your murmuring is basically the same idea as level of detail or reducing screen resolution.

    Both can have "unlimited fps" based on how they are written, ray tracing is limited by the CPU and rasterization is limited by the GPU. I have a simple game engine that uses rasterization and it can produce as many images as the GPU can calculate. Of course I can also limit it to vysnc.

    This Q's raytracer isn't "hard real-time" raytracer. The renderer is synchronized to display and every frame is rendered as long as it has time before next display refresh.
    Petteri then the Q's raytracer doesnt support "unlimited fps"


    • #62
      Originally posted by Pickle View Post
      Petteri then the Q's raytracer doesnt support "unlimited fps"
      I know. I just ignore the first 6-7 pages to avoid headache.

      The point seems to be that it is easy to guarantee fixed rendering times (fps) with raytracer (especially if random mess is considered to be correct output )
      If we are not going to extremes, it does make some sense because slight noise in image (murmuring) isn't as annoying as judder and stutter caused by changing rendering times.

      But it isn't a magical solution because after making fps synced to display, you have to adjust rendering resolution, refresh rate or raytracing parameters to get the amount of murmuring down.


      • #63
        Originally posted by Pickle View Post
        ok there we have it, you are constructing a final image to put into the buffer to be displayed. Petteri then the Q's raytracer doesnt support "unlimited fps"
        The "big idea" behind Q's hypothetical raytracer is that it stops constructing the image once a predefined timelimit elapses. If you set the timelimit to 0 it stops constructing the image immediately (hence a blank screen), but your framerate is theoretically "unlimited". The "murmuring rate" simply expresses how many rays the raytracer manages trace before the timelimit elapses. You can't do both vsync and unlimited, because vsync equals a timelimit > 0.

        I can't believe I'm actually discussing language and grammar on Phoronix...

        Originally posted by Qaridarium
        Unlogik is a german word: its a combination of 2 fragmentation of un-logik
        and in english logic is writen with C and "undo" is the same in english its a combination of 2 fragmentations un-do
        Yes, great, Unlogik being a German word totally proves that it absolutely must exist in the English dictionary, my fault

        If you want to discuss the English language try using a dictionary like, or None of these know "unlogic" as a word.

        The link to "" on the other hand doesn't prove anything. This is an artist's username for crying out loud. Yes you can also find examples of people using "unlogic" because they're just as confused by different prefixes as you are. That doesn't make its usage correct (Maybe it will be in the future, because natural languages evolve). Your Star Trek wiki cites a fan made movie. They used "unlogic" as a noun to define something that is the opposite of logic (also a noun), which is not necessarily the same as illogical (an adjective). Simply put: They made that word up because it makes sense in their context.|de|illogic, woops, it translates to Unlogik. At also translates unlogic because it’s a common spelling mistake. (Try searching the article for examples of illogic).

        Btw, go ahead and translate my first sentence to German using Google. Doesn’t that translation look unnatural to you? You can make out what it says, but it sounds weird. And on some occasions machine translations can be either wrong or even possibly insulting.
        Last edited by Wildfire; 14 March 2012, 01:40 PM.


        • #64
          Originally posted by Qaridarium
          [...] but then after a long fight i called here dump and stupid and other bad names she get the point noun vs adjective.
          this means illogical is wrong and unlogic is right because i translate a german noun to a english noun and not to a adjective.
          Natural languages need not be symmetrical. This means not every word in one language must have an exact representation in another language. This is what I meant when I said it may be possible to express something with a single word in English while you need several words in German (and vice versa).

          In other words: There are two nouns in German, "Logik" and "Unlogik", but this does not mean there need to be two nouns in English as well. There either is logic or there is an absence of logic. There is no real opposite, hence no "unlogic". Something can be illogical if it doesn't follow a certain logic (which means there is an absence of logic), but that doesn't make it "unlogic". The word does exist in German because it makes certain things easier to express, but if you think about it logically, the word Unlogik actually makes no sense.


          • #65
            Originally posted by Qaridarium
            again FUD i use the english wikipedia to show you there is a difference between Logic and Rationality!
            because of this you can not use rational for logic!
            because its not the same!

            also FUD... in german a noun is a noun like in english is a noun a noun you can't speak a noun like a adjectiv just because you are to stupid to know the noun version of the word!
            Go away, stop trolling.


            • #66
              In response to the OP's question:

              In general, video games benefit and take advantage of high-bandwidth low-cache systems. If you take a look at the PS2 for example (and old console, yes, but relevant to this example) you'll find that it had a very small amount of onboard RAM and cache compared to other computing devices of it's day. Even today, if you look at the current consoles, they too had small amounts of RAM and cache even on the day of their initial release. I can't say much in regards to the benefits of increased FP performance on the CPU, but I do know that large amounts of cache are often times unnecessary in a gaming console.

              This is a very old article, but worth a read if you're interested in console architectures: