Guys, thank you for input! Especially MU_Engineer!
The true reason behind Athlon II x4 inefficient Vcore setting is simple - they are masking defect (turned off or defect cache, defect cores etc) Phenoms II as Athlons II. Phenom II is unable to work under 1.4Vcore and same as X3 vs X4, it seems AMD is unabIt runs and consumes electricity, but its not internally addressed.le to remove the power off completely from the defect chip or cache. On the contrast true Athlon II Propus cores only need as much as 1.15 Vcc to function stable at 2.8Ghz. Which was one of the reason I switched not only the graphics card to AMD, but the system itself - the chip may cost cheap but it should definitely not waste megawatts via deactivated cache or similar. As an "Otto-normal Burger" I don't own a nuclear powerplant in the backyard, nor am I interested in investing into pretty inefficient high-cost solar panels.
Core on other side, although as it seems pretty cut down at factory, does not utilize the cut-down parts nor needs to supply them with power.
I hope AMD will improve in next generation, ty for input!
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Originally posted by QaridariumPCIe1.0,useless SLI, bios bugs,chipset to hot and the multisocked incompatility to cpu coolers becouse the first cpu blocks the seconds ones clousding mechanism.
means next time i buy a single socket and nothing blocks my super big fat 1kg Mugen cooler
its funny because one of my opteron board in the past do not have the "appropriate mounting brackets" and this is not funny if you wana have an bigblock silence cooler in your system and all server coolers are 5000UPM very loud coolers... and no one in germany sells: "appropriate mounting brackets"
You can also look on eBay for retention brackets if your board does not come with one. They cost $4-10 and I'll bet that some of the sellers even ship to Germany.
and hey all server heatsinks are just BAD BAD BAD BAD! and loud!
bad and loud just because they save "place" and for my use i have place over place all over...
my mugen cooler is 160cm high and this kind of heatsinks cool an opteron passiv
so really the server heatsinks are so fucked up.
wrong??? the germany shop sites says EATX and not ATX and hey just calculate an exampel
in germany the cheapest price for that board is 270?
the cheapest Supermicro H8SGL-F is 227?
means you save 43? if you don't buy an C32 dualsocket board!
and an AMD Opteron 4170 2.1ghz costs 170? and 2 of them 340?
yes thats 12 cores if you calculate that for 8 cores it costs 227?
an AMD Opteron 6128 cots 260? means you win 33?
and you save 1 cpu cooler a good one costs 50?
means in real you save 140? if you don't buy an c32 system
right but its not logical thats because the 12 core do have the same cores in it...
maybe that 6core are just better selected 'dies'
i run linux over 6 years now. 3 years with nvidia and 3 years with ati cards.
but yes my memory can not tell you all my crashes in detail ..
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Originally posted by Qaridariummaybe you combare it between the best hdd and the cheapest/worst ssd ?
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Originally posted by Qaridariumi don't care about bad software
but i care on good software and last time i check cpu cores in use on an raytracing engine the count goes to 64 theats... in blender
i think the real clue is "I don't have the game"
and you never be a fan of OFP-CTI or arma2-wafare
you never touch an war game with over 1600 ki's and 128 human players and 10 000 view distance on an 225km? map with the highest skilled KI over the world.
"but I am pretty sure it does not need 12 cores or 64 GB of RAM to run."
need? well it does not need but if you wana do what i wana do in the game you really wana have that stuff because you don't wana die in the game.
in the end arma2 supports 12 cores and 64gb ram i don't care about the minimum pc hardware rate or an optimum hardware rate for the single player missions.
i only care about the maximum on the CTI/wafare multiplayer map with 128 players and 1408 Ki s with all settings on max.
c32 is the next step of the socket f 1207 my last opteron system
so i really know the weakness and i don't wana have that again.
the g34 is much better because you save money on the cooling solution 50? every socked against an c32 system.
and an single socket g34 is ATX and not Eatx so you can build smaler systems.
and the g34 opterons do have more speed per watt usage.
i got zero benefit out of my last ECC system
the system also crashes and need restards
and an non ECC system works well if you check the ram from time to time.
i call you an laier in that point because my last opteron crashes with ECC ram
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Originally posted by Qaridariumopterons are not only used by server think about workstations
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I also noticed that you are using DDR3-1600 on the athlon II system, which should add a few more watts compared to the DDR2 on the pentium. Other than that I think you already got all the reasons why the athlon consumes more power.
BTW, I got my X4 630 stable at 1,23V. It was stable at 1,22V, but a few weeks ago I started getting sporadic error messages during boot saying that the "overvoltage" had failed, but that's probably due to my crappy PSU.
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Originally posted by Qaridarium7zip,x264 encoding,arma2,surprime commander for exampel
arma2 needs 12 cores and 64gb ram and you can not put 64gb ram into an Phenom2 system
well if i buy an g34 socked board it will be a supermicro single socket board.
and then i can turn of that feature withour any hurt
the opteron can win if an app use at minimum 4 cores because of the higher ram bandwith on 4 theats
with an phenomII you can use at max 1600mhz ddr3 dimms
1600*2 vs 1333*4 means the opteron is faster
and the ram latency goes down if you have parrell tasks if 4 tasks ask for an ram request the phenomII do this seriel and the opteron can handle 4 ram requests at the same time on differend tasks..
i think the 900 series consumes less power
means the desktop chipset wins again..-
i never run any servers. i only interested in the opterons because of the gread workstation useages and gaming usages.
means i don't care about your SAS hdd stuff over an PCIe lane
in my point of view the opteron6000 series beats the desktop one on the RAM side you can have 32/64gb of ram with normal desktop ddr3 'rams'
means you can play an streaming game like arma2 in an ramdrive withour reload stuttering
Also, game level load times are usually only a handful of seconds. Are you as impatient as this kid when it comes to load times?
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Originally posted by Qaridariuman 3,5" hdd consums 15-20watt an SSD only 0,5 watt.
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Originally posted by Qaridariumwell yes.. but my point is true any opteron beat an desktop dualcore cpu in performance per watt usage
you can turn of the ht assist in the bios
not all apps run faster with ht assist in my point of view ht assist is a benchmark feature for syntetic benchmarks
not anything is about raw speed the opteron is abaut latency in an game like ARMA2 an Opteron system do have much better Latency time
means if the systems runs slower because of the first theat is slowed down by the 2ghz overall the system reacts faster than the PhenomII system with more fps...
fore FPS or reacting faster i prever the reacting faster
thats because of the parralell ram latency 4 channels do have less parraell latency than 2 channels.
right now wait 6 monds or so then the desktop boards do have better chipsets again ...
in clear words right now the desktop is better
maybe because of the sata3
yes 2012... means 2011 the desktop chipsets beat the server chipsets again...
yet is an very danger word in the computer world the yet can be over every minute--
opterons are not only used by server think about workstations
it does matter i know tests that the latency over the southbridge is better than over an PCIe card.
so you buy an SSD for faster latency then you burn the latency over the PCIe bus LOL.. FAIL
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Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
The first core2d and second athlon II config were used inside same machine - HDDs, optical, monitor and PSU unchanged.
- The first was dual core e5300, asrock p43me, 2x2gb ddr2-800, gf-9800gt-green(rated at max 75W).
- The second - athlon II x4 630, gigabyte ga-ma785gmt-ud2h(lastest bios), 2x2gb ddr3-1600, rd-hd4770(rated at max 85w).
The psu is 2.5 year old BeQuiet 400W, should be very comparable to enermax in terms of efficiency.
I think it is highly unprobable that cpu gets overvolted for stability. Why for, when phenom II uses exactly the same Vcc. 6 megabyte of cache are away, why not to drop the voltage...
This is pure craziness if AMD think desktop are unimportant for power efficiency!
I highly doubt that energy efficiency of topmost priority in server systems.
If energy efficiency weren't a priority, why would they put "Outstanding performance per watt" on the front of their box instead of "Outstanding performance" or "Outstanding performance for the price?"
Also, I too heard, that AMD opteron has 80W not due to "better cores", but due to adding N while, at same time, droping total GHz ratio of CPU - to maintain TDP. And the additional cache is included in the formula as well.
This, combined with previous statement will make Opteron use on my desktop rather unefficient and unused. Well, I dont run server at home(yet), I only need boost of power maybe only some times per day.
The nice new things that I know now (and lots due to your help) are:
-) Intel is selling unlock cards for extra price for low-level intel cpus, to unlock their original performance. Pretty dirty, when a cpu that is capable at running faster with zero cost, is being added to this scheme(implementing which also ADDS extra cost) and the result is then sold at lower price. Pretty dirty.
-) Intel is selling SAS cards on server boards that are also locked! Present, working, using power, but LOCKED unless you purchase the code(600$ or so).
-) AMD sorts out bad cores for desktop, where with Intel you are running server quality(in terms of AMD) cpu on desktop system.
-) AMD uses 2 chip logic, similar to core i7-9xx. This is very probably adding to idle usage..
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