AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D Linux Performance: Zen 5 With 3D V-Cache

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  • avis
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2022
    • 2273

    #61
    Originally posted by ZeroPointEnergy View Post
    That sounds like a skill issue on your end
    I have no issues, I'm running games under their native environment.

    It's you who have issues and as a big Linux fan you choose to deny them. That's a very common trait among Linux fans.

    - Everything works!!
    - What about games A B C that don't work under Wine/DXVK yet?
    - I don't play them!
    - What about games D E F with a kernel anticheat?
    - I don't play those either!
    - What if I want to play them?
    - Not my issue!
    ​- What about regression W/X/Y/Z in MESA/Linux kernel/DXVK/Wine that makes games G and H unplayable?
    - You're using the wrong distro/MESA/kernel/Wine!

    Linux gaming experience shines!

    Or you can install Windows 10 or 11 and have fun playing.

    Comment

    • ZeroPointEnergy
      Senior Member
      • May 2013
      • 237

      #62
      Originally posted by avis View Post
      It's you who have issues and as a big Linux fan you choose to deny them.
      Exactly the thing someone with skill issues would say

      Comment

      • avis
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2022
        • 2273

        #63
        Originally posted by ZeroPointEnergy View Post
        Exactly the thing someone with skill issues would say
        Games not running/working is a "skill issue"? Dude, you could really go see a psychiatrist. And the other dude who upvotes your absolutely idiotic comments.

        I've also added you to my BL. Enough with idiocy and zealotry.

        Comment

        • DumbFsck
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2023
          • 345

          #64
          I have no issues, I'm running games under their native environment.
          Originally posted by avis View Post

          ​- What about regression W/X/Y/Z in MESA/Linux kernel/DXVK/Wine that makes games G and H unplayable?
          - You're using the wrong distro/MESA/kernel/Wine!
          This is something that I'll echo the other commenters and say that either hasn't happened in a LONG while, or may be a "skill issue" as they put, or maybe if it happens it's with games no-one plays.. I don't know, would be nice to see examples.


          Originally posted by avis View Post
          I have no issues, I'm running games under their native environment.
          [...]
          Or you can install Windows 10 or 11 and have fun playing.
          You know this isn't true. Drawing from experience, even WITHOUT using Windows for many years, I'm still "that guy" that my (somewhat small) group of gaming friends ask for help troubleshooting when things go wrong with their windows PCs. And it still happens quite often.

          The latest was this week, a friend's PC was presenting a garbled mess for the intro vids when opening CS2, the only "fix" we found was to make it not show the vids. Maybe it's fixed now I wouldn't know.

          One friend of mine almost never updates their GPU drivers, I tell him he's wrong but the dude has trauma. Another one couldn't get p2p servers to work in any game (aoe, zomboid, CS) and navigating 300 menus to change firewall settings in three different places didn't work (his docsys 3.1 router is configured correctly), the "fix" is that he's never the host.

          This is just what I've had first hand contact recently - out of a small group. I bet if you browse forums you'd find hundreds more "isolated cases". I don't browse them, but that's a bet I'm willing to take.

          Originally posted by avis View Post
          That's a very common trait among Linux fans.

          - Everything works!!
          - What about games A B C that don't work under Wine/DXVK yet?
          - I don't play them!
          - What about games D E F with a kernel anticheat?
          - I don't play those either!
          - What if I want to play them?
          - Not my issue!

          Linux gaming experience shines!​
          Our experiences are really different. Here and in r/linux and in YouTube it seems the sentiment is always "it's getting better" and "it currently fits *my* use-case, but it's not the right tool for everyone" and etc.

          A friend of mine (not a "gaming friend", but also someone I helped setting up his TPM correctly cause Riot was giving him conflicting directions) recently asked me about using Linux, as he thinks it's much better suited for his post doctoral work (a lot of R). I said I don't recommend and that he would probably be better served by using WSL to try things out or at most dual booting - as LoL and Valorant are two of the games he plays. Another one told me that everyone who knows their stuff uses Linux (which I disagree) and said he wanted to try, I told him that he shouldn't and that this tool is really unsuited for his job (he does editing, compositing, some VFX work) as he actually needs Adobe for his work - regardless of games.

          So I andany others say "yeah it's fine for what I need" and we all respect those who need different things. I'd really like to see those people who pretend everything is awesome, because I'm tempted to think they are either an extreme minority or just straight up strawmen.

          Avis, it would be so much nicer to interact with you I'd you had a bit more respect and nuance. You can look at every interaction we have had with each other and you'll see what I mean.

          I'm one of the most patient people I know, so even if you get grating I can still take your points and try and have a normal conversation. But the lack of nuance, over exaggeration (and the tautology here is intentional), short temper (sometimes going off on unwarranted rants, saying you're done with X or Y conversation or blocking people, etc) and etc, is what causes people to then engage in bad faith or being too terse and rude and then make you react with adding people to your block list.

          If you don't mind I'd actually suggest looking inward a bit.

          Comment

          • ZeroPointEnergy
            Senior Member
            • May 2013
            • 237

            #65
            Originally posted by avis View Post
            I've also added you to my BL. Enough with idiocy and zealotry.
            Thanks for improving my forum experience

            Comment

            • qarium
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2008
              • 3446

              #66
              Originally posted by avis View Post
              Zen5 3D:
              1. A blatant rip-off price-wise, "just" $480 for the CPU alone, not counting cooling (and lots of reviewers ran it with liquid cooling/AiO)
              2. A pathetic gaming performance increase:

              3. A horrible decrease in power efficiency:

              AMD fanbase? A wonderful CPU!!! MY NEXT CPU FOR SURE. INTEL DESTROYED AND RECKED!

              Reality:
              • A pathetic showing vs Apple M4 Pro
              • Extremely overpriced; costs as much as Sony PlayStation 5
              • Barely any progress in 2 years for the vast majority of people
              • A regression in terms of power efficiency despite using a more advanced node
              • Continues the tradition of desktop AMD Zen CPUs idling at 25W+
              Trump becoming a president again is now not the worst news of the day.
              the Apple M4 Pro is not even in the benchmark you posted and many games do not run on a Apple M4 Pro

              who buys a new PS5 anyway these days they all buy playstation 5 pro for 900€ and the old PS5 land on ebay dirt cheap

              you know that the 5800X3D and 7800X3D where technical failures with the 3D cache on top stop the termals and not be able to clock the chip highe...

              compared to that the 9800X3D is a Genius product.

              its pretty sure that in comparison with Apple M4 Pro a 9950X3D with 3D cache on both chiplets means double the 3D cache than a 9800X3d the Apple M4 Pro will be nuked the Apple M4 Pro is ~15% faster than a 9950X this means a X3D version with 3D cache on each chiplet could outperform the Apple M4 Pro easily.
              Phantom circuit Sequence Reducer Dyslexia

              Comment

              • qarium
                Senior Member
                • Nov 2008
                • 3446

                #67
                Originally posted by sophisticles View Post
                AMD really knows how to make scam processors.
                Add a small amount of cheap cache, and sell it as a "gaming" CPU.
                Now if AMD released a CPU with 2Gb of this type of cache, maybe they would have something.
                But this?
                Only a sucker would buy it.
                So AMD will probably sell many of these.
                why exactly is not intel add some small amount of cheap cache and sell it as a gamer CPU ?

                o well they already said they can not do this.

                "Only a sucker would buy it."

                can you explain this to me why exactly is a gamer who does not buy a 14900k and buy a amd 9800X3D instead is a sucker ?
                Phantom circuit Sequence Reducer Dyslexia

                Comment

                • sophisticles
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2015
                  • 2615

                  #68
                  Originally posted by qarium View Post
                  why exactly is not intel add some small amount of cheap cache and sell it as a gamer CPU ?

                  o well they already said they can not do this.
                  Intel has made and sold consumer CPUs with 128mb L4 and edram on numerous occasions:

                  Intel's new socketed Broadwell processors are here, combined with a 128MB L4 cache. Intel's Crystal Well technology shines -- Chipzilla has authoritatively taken the lead on integrated graphics performance, though you'll pay a pretty penny for the privilege.






                  Originally posted by qarium View Post
                  "Only a sucker would buy it."

                  can you explain this to me why exactly is a gamer who does not buy a 14900k and buy a amd 9800X3D instead is a sucker ?
                  You misunderstand, anyone that buys a "gaming" CPU from any company is a sucker.

                  When a company tries to sell a "gaming" CPU the implication is that it is somehow designed for gaming and consequently vastly superior, but the reality such a small amount of cache does not really have all that much impact on performance, certainly nothing that couldn't be achieved with an extra core.

                  More importantly, when you look at what the PS5 can do with just an 8C/16T Zen 2, 2gb system ram and 16gb video ram, you realize that you don't need crazy specs if you have an optimized OS (BSD) and optimized games.

                  Comment

                  • kylothow
                    Junior Member
                    • Nov 2024
                    • 2

                    #69
                    Originally posted by Squisher View Post
                    It may need some more testing but it kind of shows how zen5 could perform if amd did their due diligence and also updated their infinity fabric and io die. Guess they wanted to go cheap with zen5 to hope that zen6 really hits hard. But the air is getting thinner and thinner for x86 designs. Like from intel everything surrounding the cpu is still pack leading
                    Ever considered coming back from 2012 and sobering up before posting? Just a friendly suggestion.

                    Comment

                    • qarium
                      Senior Member
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 3446

                      #70
                      Originally posted by sophisticles View Post
                      Intel has made and sold consumer CPUs with 128mb L4 and edram on numerous occasions:
                      and you miss the point of newly intel interview who intel managers said it was a failure and they will not do it again in desktop or notebook market.
                      also keep in mind intel has no 3D technology only 2D technology to add cache chiplets.
                      their new Xeon CPUs with added cache chiplets will put it in by adding 2D cache chiplets.
                      if you compare the performance between adding 2D cache and 3D cache you will see why they do not want make gamer CPUs with that technology.

                      intel already said they will do something different they said the 285K cpu loses games benchmarks because the chiplet design means the memory controller and IO chiplet adds latency what is critical for gamer cpus.
                      they already said that they for notebook cpus and future design will make sure they do less chiplets and remove the memory controller and IO chiplet and add this functionality back into the chiplet who the CPU cores are.
                      they will only keep chiplets in areas who have no downside because of latency what nukes the games performance.

                      also keep in mind their 5% bonus for eliminating hyperthreating is already burned with the 285K
                      there are already bios updated for the X3D cpus of AMD who disable hyperthreating to get this extra 5% FPS in games.

                      but even if they eliminate the IO chiplet again this maybe gives them 5% more FPS in games this will not save them from the 9800X3D

                      Originally posted by sophisticles View Post
                      You misunderstand, anyone that buys a "gaming" CPU from any company is a sucker.
                      man you are a loser really some people are hard working people with high salary and they only buy it to make their children happy on christmass but you think he is a sucker only because he does not want to trap his children into walled garden prisons of playstation and xbox and apple bullshit devices.

                      also keep in mind that before the 9800X3D the AMD Gaming GPU's where finished on the market litterally no one did buy it and now with the release of the 9800X3D you can see it on mindfactory statistic and also amazone sales list AMD sells all their RDNA2 and RDNA3 GPUs off right now with 50% marketshare of GPU sales compared to Nvidia... (the market share on money turnover is a little less like 45% if i remember correctly)
                      before the cpu release the gaming gpu department did make over 67% less sales but this CPU 9800X3D did in fact saved the gaming gpu department. and yes you do not want to believe it but the market share of nvidia is tanked in this field of course they do not care because they make more money with AI...

                      Originally posted by sophisticles View Post

                      When a company tries to sell a "gaming" CPU the implication is that it is somehow designed for gaming and consequently vastly superior, but the reality such a small amount of cache does not really have all that much impact on performance, certainly nothing that couldn't be achieved with an extra core.
                      man you have brain damange really Intel to get 5% more in games already did kill of hyperthreating in the 285K cpu... they only did miscalculation and the extra memory/IO die latency did break their neck.,. (for consumer cpus this chiplet experiment with seperate memory io die is more or less over for intel)

                      Originally posted by sophisticles View Post

                      More importantly, when you look at what the PS5 can do with just an 8C/16T Zen 2, 2gb system ram and 16gb video ram, you realize that you don't need crazy specs if you have an optimized OS (BSD) and optimized games.
                      first of all this: "8C/16T Zen 2, 2gb system ram and 16gb video ram" proof that the orginal playstation 5 was a design failure because xbox had such a design from the start.

                      "optimized OS (BSD)"

                      LOL you are clearly a conspiracy theorist because every time if you benchmark BSD vs Linux the result is linux wins.

                      "optimized games."

                      touché yes but you know these games optimised for playstation are a disease and you know it.

                      the result of that for many years was that if you have 32gb ram your game only use 16gb ram because of playstation 5 optimisations.

                      this argument is correct but complete bullshit because it results in technological advanced only every 5 years of a new playstation is released... you can expect that the playstation 6 then has 32gb overall ram..
                      and before playstation 6 you do not need to upgrade your pc...

                      yes thanks to these nonsense optimizations.
                      Phantom circuit Sequence Reducer Dyslexia

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