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Benchmarking Five Linux Distros Against Windows 11 On The Threadripper PRO 7995WX / HP Z6 G5 A

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  • #41
    Originally posted by zachw View Post
    Considering its recent release, it would've been cool to see FreeBSD 14's results.
    No working USB support, I tried...
    Michael Larabel
    https://www.michaellarabel.com/

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    • #42
      Originally posted by agd5f View Post

      VBS is mostly just using the IOMMU to isolate device DMA. Linux had this long before windows did.

      No and not even close to it. When you use VBS, essentially you make places in kernel in own memory space isolated by hyper-V. And of course for it to be effective IOMMU is needed to make sure DMA cannot be abused across hypervisors. IOMMU is just there to make sure VBS is effective, it is not protection measurement in case of VBS.

      Also i seriously question about practically of decrease attack surface on IOMMU existance alone in examples from test. It is important in context of hosting virtual machines to prevent DMA access across VMs, but essentially if you got malware in kernel in linux, essentially entire kernel is yours as far as I know (if you defeat ASLR etc.). Technically I can sort of see IOMMU helping if somehow firmware of GPU was compromised but still if firmware of GPU overwrites memory it has access to and places malicious code there technically everything is yours again in Linux. In windows with VBS this attack can be avoided based on hypervisor as malicious code now is in VM. IOMMU in linux feels like a protection for big corporations like AWS, MS Azure and other hosting providers not for desktop user like it is a case in test. But we talk about windows for users.

      Edit. Correct me if i am wrong, but I am not particulary aware of "strong" IOMMU restrictions on linux. One small correction Windows does use IOMMU without VBS, such example could be windows 10 1803 update with WDDM2.4. There there was made a proper IOMMU for gpu drivers but if i look at MS website about it ( IOMMU-based GPU isolation on learn microsoft ) things are kinda technical and by that i have certain amount of confidence that you cannot do it in generic way for all hardware as is. You kinda have to go by device by device basics and in windows it made entire new version of WDDM. I am not aware of something like that in Linux. Also windows 11 now has IOMMUv2 (IOMMU DMA remapping on microsoft learn).
      Last edited by piotrj3; 29 November 2023, 10:09 PM.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by piotrj3 View Post
        No and not even close to it. When you use VBS, essentially you make places in kernel in own memory space isolated by hyper-V. And of course for it to be effective IOMMU is needed to make sure DMA cannot be abused across hypervisors. IOMMU is just there to make sure VBS is effective, it is not protection measurement in case of VBS.
        IOMMU protects the OS from bad drivers/devices/firmwares. It doesn't need to be bad intent, just bugs in addressing, etc. E.g., you don't want an errant DMA to scribble over important data in system memory.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by andyprough View Post

          So Microsoft has special meetings for their one fan that cheerleads for them on GNU/Linux forums? Who knew?

          You should demand more money. Whatever they are paying you, it's not nearly enough for all the work you do.
          I agree. How would you like to be my agent? How does 15% sound?

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          • #45
            Originally posted by agd5f View Post

            VBS is mostly just using the IOMMU to isolate device DMA. Linux had this long before windows did.
            No, no, that's completely different. IOMMU protects memory against access from devices. And that's it. ​

            HVCI (VBS) checks kernel integrity. Similar Linux solutions are rather Hooksafe and LKRG (no virtualized enclave).

            The difference is that on Windows it has already been implemented and available for years. And if someone needs performance, e.g. a gamer, they turn it off with one click. In a typical office or home environment there is no need to turn it off.

            In my company, HVCI is mandatory (yes, Linux is prohibited ) except for the IT department - I work in a large company dealing with insurance and finance.​
            Last edited by HEL88; 30 November 2023, 01:34 AM.

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            • #46
              The one thing that no one has mentioned is the Windows HAL.

              This is the reason why Linux runs faster than Windows on many benchmarks.

              Windows has had a HAL since the NT days, and as you can see from the links below and the images, everything on Windows goes through the HAL.

              The benefit is code portability but as the benchmarks show since everything, including the Windows kernel, has to go through the HAL, performance is affected.

              Linux has a simpler "onion" architecture, with the kernel running bare metal, and so it tends to run faster,

              Which is better is up for debate, Microsoft tends to listen to corporate clients that request specific features, and when the HAL was first introduced with NT, it was possible to run Windows on PowerPC, MIPS, Alphas.

              The idea was that everything would use a common code base and all that was needed was a new HAL to get it to run on a new architecture.

              Microsoft would never admit this but I suspect that back when NT was first released there was probably serious questions as to the long term viability of the x86 architecture.

              In fact, Win 2k had a 64bit version that ran on Itanium, though it was never released to the public, instead you had to use XP which did officially support Itanium.

              HAL, or hardware abstraction layer, is a thin layer of software at the base of the Microsoft Windows Server that offers a uniform interface between the underlying hardware and the higher layers of the operating system.


              A Computer Science portal for geeks. It contains well written, well thought and well explained computer science and programming articles, quizzes and practice/competitive programming/company interview Questions.


              Last edited by sophisticles; 30 November 2023, 01:15 AM.

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              • #47
                So a desktop operating system, which at it's core is largely unchanged since 1996 can't really compete with Linux on the performance front. What a fucking surprise.

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                • #48
                  Hi Michael,
                  I have a small question about tests, where Windows more than 2x times slower than any Linux, like this

                  I don't see any explanations of such results in this, and previous article, did you check that on Windows all cores of CPU were used? While in Windows 11 MS removed their 64 cores per domain limitation, it looks like some limit is in place somewhere, and I'm wondering where

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by HEL88 View Post

                    When I start using e.g. LuxCoreRender, Embre, OSPRey and buy Threadripper PRO, I will switch to Linux - I promise.

                    But this is not likely to happen in the next 30 years .
                    If I wouldn't care about security, convenience I would be using Windows.

                    And you rejoice like a child that Linux is better in programs that 99.9% of the population have not even heard of.
                    Better in programs 99.9% population is using everyday and they don't even know this. Most of the Internet my friend.

                    BTW, sorry, buddy, but yesterday I finished editing the video in VSDC, and the effects editing there is much better than in ShotCut, and this quite popular program is not even available on Linux .​
                    That's why Wine and Proton exist.

                    And you continue to live with benchmarks from programs you don't use.
                    Really? Forgot multimedia benchmarks, databases which are used by Firefox and other software? Blender, archiving software, Steam. All of them are working much better.

                    P.S. you should convince Birdy, because it seems he cares too much.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by HEL88 View Post

                      Windows since 2007 and Windows Vista has MAC, too (called Mandatory Integrity Control​).
                      Yes, but it's just a tip of an iceberg. Windows had ASLR in Vista, but it was broken and it's hard to find what their ASLR/KASLR covers. It seems Windows 11 is finally catching up in basic security*.

                      * but we can't talk about security when MS has access to your system.

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