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AMD @ Computex 2022 Talks Up Ryzen 7000 Series, Announces Mendocino Budget Laptop APUs

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  • ddriver
    replied
    Kids are posting this stuff around, as proof that "15% aint gonna be enough", which I think is quite curious:

    4f1b351990b35f0a8ea50389bfb6311a.png


    Curious because if we increase the amd result by 15%, we will get exactly the intel 12 gen ddr4 result.

    The thing is that CB ST has exactly zero benefit from ddr5. How do I know? Because it is already maxed out at single channel ddr4 - there is no performance difference single vs dual channel ddr4. In fact it barely has any effect (5-7%) on the multicore test as well. So extra bandwidth could not possibly help.

    Thankfully, we have the intel result to indeed verify that this particular game, unlike CB ST, benefits from ddr5 significantly. So by simple logic, amd's final performance with the added advantage of ddr5 will be in the same ballpark. There's no reason why amd would not benefit the same way in a clearly memory constrained scenario. Those results also prove that CB ST sees no gain from ddr4 to ddr5:

    126995.png

    Ironically, the same scores and titles that became unpopular because they made "slightly better value" ddr4 based 12 gen look inferior are now touted to demonstrate how much amd has to catch up, and ironically - ultimately suggest that zen 4 will end up competitive in what's essentially intel's best case scenarios, and in all likelihood, significantly better for compute productivity. Intel's about to lose a significant synthetic bench advantage due to the incorporation of avx 512 in zen 4 as well, another thing that CB does not reflect.
    Last edited by ddriver; 24 May 2022, 04:08 AM.

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  • HyperDrive
    replied
    Mendocino… now there's a code name I haven't heard in a long time…!

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  • Csokis
    replied
    Intel Mendocino

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  • Drago
    replied
    Originally posted by microcode View Post

    The GPU dies are generally much larger than the CPU dies, I think.
    Not if you want to put the GPU on laptop for example. Rurrently all AMD APUs are laptop design chips, retrofitted on AM4 socket, without any I/O die, but a monolithic.

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  • ddriver
    replied
    Having the igpu on the io die is quite nifty - you boost your statistical market share, you guarantee yourself a certain level of functionality and compatibility for your software to leverage across the entire range, and you achieve a degree of desirable isolation between the "compute cores" of the cpu, all the while attaining much lower latency than a discrete gpu - all of which positive factors to performance.

    I wonder if they are gonna find some nifty enterprise use for the igpu as well, servers could use some baseline gpu support as well, plus it can accelerate certain workloads on soc level.

    Next step - stack 16 gb hbm on top of the io die, huge soc level wide fast memory pool without extra footprint - still fits am5. That plus the 64 gigs of L3 on the compute dies. Should be thermally feasible too. And they get to claim the world's first 16 gb cache cpu, even if not sram, there are still major performance and power efficiency gains, and you get to spill over to system ram, and significantly alleviate the strain on the narrower ddr5 controller.

    Originally posted by Drago View Post
    I am wondering if there is any plans for a beefier APUs, where single compute chiplet is replaced with GPU chiplet?
    Limiting CPU to 8C/16T, but still enough.
    They can make a a bigger io die I suppose. Considering that AMD is already entering the era of mcm gpus, and that it already has a "gpu die" that's very much a system agent, that has IF links to which amd could easily attach a cpu compute die or two, instead of a secondary gpu die. Then can even keep the same alignment and substrate routing, simply scale the io die outward away from the cpu dies. A bigger gpu will however need a lot more memory bandwidth, which sans gddr can only be met with hbm memory. Well, I guess the 12 memory channels epyc io die actually has enough bandwidth to run a midrange gpu core. But dual channel ddr5 igpu will peak out exactly twice as fast as it did with dual channel dd4, that's kinda inevitable.

    Pretty soon they will also have "zen 3+" 16 core chiplet at 5nm for am5, which I guess will do pretty well against zen 4 in most use cases. So technically, amd could do as much as 32 zen3+ or 16 zen cores plus more of a mid-ranger igpu to am5. But again - only with hbm. And it will be a bit constrained at 170 watts, they will have to balance the power focus the same way they do on 17 watt power contained mobile apus.
    Last edited by ddriver; 24 May 2022, 03:44 AM.

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  • microcode
    replied
    Originally posted by Drago View Post
    I am wondering if there is any plans for a beefier APUs, where single compute chiplet is replaced with GPU chiplet?
    Limiting CPU to 8C/16T, but still enough.
    The GPU dies are generally much larger than the CPU dies, I think.

    Leave a comment:


  • jaxa
    replied
    Originally posted by rclark View Post
    That said, I don't see me jumping on the AM5 system right away if not for a long time -- unless current motherboard/cpu breaks of course. I have so much performance just 'sitting there' with my Ryzen 5000 series boxes (5900X and 5600X), I just don't see any need for upgrading. I can't help wonder if there are others out there like me that will just stick with the AM4 platform for the foreseeable future. All my systems run Linux of course. VMs run very well... Just can't see/justify upgrading.
    65W TDP APUs should be enough performance for a lot of people. By the time Phoenix and Strix Point APUs come out, the AM5 socket will be mature, DDR5 prices should be down, and you're set if you don't care about anything above 1080p gaming or are willing to use FSR or other scaling algorithms.

    But whether you go with graphics-oriented APUs or faster CPUs with weaker graphics, don't be an early adopter if you have performance "sitting there". Just sit back, relax, and enjoy the show.

    Originally posted by Teggs View Post
    From a gaming perpective, connecting another drive straight to the CPU is great. OS on one drive, I/O intense program on the other. But it's going to be wasted effort when the drive is placed directly under a GPU heat sink like that. I pity any drive placed under a 600W 4090 Ti or such garbage. Water cooling can solve the problem, but... expense.

    I also note AMD is leaning heavily into Zen 3 and even Zen 2 still for low end products. 8-core design and good yields are just killing AMD's low-end desktop offerings. I guess that AMD's response to 'Where is A620?' would be 'Why would we launch that when there are no products for it?', but I think that lack of products is a negative development. With increased cadence in development cycle, they will probably have Zen 3 as low end when Zen 5 is out, and the customer just isn't well served by that.
    It's expected that at least some PCIe 5.0 SSDs will have active cooling. It's best to stay away from PCIe 5.0 entirely, and let the early adopters take all the heat.

    Here's an article suggesting that A620 will launch alongside Rembrandt desktop APUs (Zen 3+). That sounds reasonable. It's not needed while everything is high-end and DDR5 is still expensive.

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  • ddriver
    replied
    As I mentioned just to have the board eat the message... expect those "more than 15%" to be raw compute improvement. CB ST doesn't touch most of the improvements introduced with zen 3. We should see a significantly higher boost in stuff that benefits from avx 512, memory bandwidth, ai acceleration and whatnot.

    Zen 3 was already quite strong in raw compute, mostly winning or being still very competitive at sustained compute workloads against intel 12th gen. And there isn't much point to improve something you are already good at, when your competitor uses different approaches to prop up its scores.

    As of why would amd want to understate its performance - who knows - catch intel unprepared, build up then crush fanbois, manipulate the stock market...
    Last edited by ddriver; 23 May 2022, 10:32 PM.

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  • Teggs
    replied
    From a gaming perpective, connecting another drive straight to the CPU is great. OS on one drive, I/O intense program on the other. But it's going to be wasted effort when the drive is placed directly under a GPU heat sink like that. I pity any drive placed under a 600W 4090 Ti or such garbage. Water cooling can solve the problem, but... expense.

    I also note AMD is leaning heavily into Zen 3 and even Zen 2 still for low end products. 8-core design and good yields are just killing AMD's low-end desktop offerings. I guess that AMD's response to 'Where is A620?' would be 'Why would we launch that when there are no products for it?', but I think that lack of products is a negative development. With increased cadence in development cycle, they will probably have Zen 3 as low end when Zen 5 is out, and the customer just isn't well served by that.

    Leave a comment:


  • jochendemuth
    replied
    I am not sure if I would get more excited about 24 lanes of PCIe5 (x670e chip) or 48 lanes of PCIe4 (x670) this fall... also not sure if this is how it will work with the 670 chip.

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