OpenBLAS Deciding Whether To Drop Support For Russia's Elbrus CPUs

[justinkb]

Or when Afghanistan was fucked."weapon of mass destruction".

I guess it's confusing because US invades so many countries, but you're getting mixed up here. The coalition of the willing (not NATO, btw, don't get it wrong) invaded Iraq over non-existing WMDs. Afghanistan was invaded because the Taliban allowed al-Qaeda to shelter/train there. It was a direct response to 9/11

PS. Serbs got bombed because they were genociding people, they deserved every bomb they got.

[coder]

Or when Afghanistan was fucked."weapon of mass destruction". Why no one was suggesting to cut off America or UK off the internet, banking systems, etc etc? Stop being self righteous. I am sick of that.

No one ever said Afghanistan had WMDs. What happened is they were harboring Al Qaeda and refused to turn them over to the US (or give it permission to attack them). So, the US also declared war against Afghanistan's rulers: the Taliban.

Now, that much makes sense. However, once Al Qaeda was effectively uprooted, the US thought it was a good idea to stay and help a democratic government stabilize the country. This turned out to be a serious miscalculation. I think we can now say that it just wasn't possible for Afghanistan to move beyond the Taliban. That was a regrettable misjudgement, but hopefully one we can learn from.

It's a little weird to bring up Afghanistan, as if the USSR didn't have an even worse history there (or in Chechnya, for that matter, where Putin really made his reputation).

[Vermilion]

If open source is really going to do this, then let's cut off:

Russia for invading Ukraine
China for Uyghur genocide
US for their wars and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan
Israel for bombarding Syria and Gaza strip
Saudi Arabia for Yemeni genocide
...

[coder]

I guess it's confusing because US invades so many countries, but you're getting mixed up here.

Not really. In the past 20 years, it was just Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and Syria.

Of those, I think the latter two were hard decisions, but ultimately well-intentioned. Pretty much everyone wanted Ghadaffi out of Libya. It's just a shame that there wasn't a more significant peace-keeping force to help and stabilize the country. It fell to chaos he had done the typical tactic of all dictators and made the country's institutions weak, as well as playing up its ethnic & religious factions against each other. But the US was still sore from Iraq and had no appetite for it, nor could it coalesce a collective effort to unify and rebuild the country.

Syria was already past the point Libya got to, where a tyrant was slaughtering his own people. What ultimately drew in the US was the threat of ISIS. And note that when ISIS was defeated, the US left. Probably should've at least offered the Kurds some protection, but no.

And if you want to talk about Syria, let's talk about the hospitals and other civilian targets that Russia systematically bombed, shall we?

[coder]

If open source is really going to do this, then let's cut off:

Russia for invading Ukraine
China for Uyghur genocide
US for their wars and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan
Israel for bombarding Syria and Gaza strip
Saudi Arabia for Yemeni genocide
...

Question: why? In the case of ELBRUS, it's a CPU with primarily government & military applications. And the idea is to impede (or at least withhold assistance to) their military conquests.

Your other examples are all materially different, in that they're extremely non-specific targets and lack strategic objectives.

[dimko]

RT propaganda in full effect I see.

So you really think that Zelenskyy being a Jew would be some well kept secret in a fucking presidential election? And talking about Nazis, you have e.g Russian National Unity who not only are neo-Nazis but also joined the pro-Russian forces against Ukraine during Donbass...

And no NATO is not hostile to Russia, it's defence alliance, not an offence alliance. The only reason to not want a country joining NATO is if you plan to invade said country. Neither EU nor the US invaded Yugoslavia.

"So you really think that Zelenskyy being a Jew would be some well kept secret in a fucking presidential election?" - no not secret, but he doesn't advertise it. But he is as much jew as me(even our surnames are similar actually). He is christian and conveniently pulled out card of "I am jew" as a good trump card when shit hit the fan. "you have e.g Russian National Unity" -obviously scambags, but how are you amazed they happen when literally everyone and their dog blames every problem on Russia and yet every country which was post USSR and has shittier economics has thens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people who comes to Russia for work(including Ukraine citizens!!!!). Its same as crazy US liberals saying, that US is literally NAZI, when half million of Mexicans staying on border trying to get in into US. WHO was trying to get in into Ukraine apart from foreign students who wanted some free or dirt cheap post soviet education in last 20 years?


I live in EU, i dont have TV and dont remember when last time i watched RT. I sure as fuck dont watch russian TV, too much propoganda. I dont watch EU/US tv for same exact reasons. "RT propaganda in full effect I see." - no i see CNN MSNBC propoganda.

"And no NATO is not hostile to Russia, it's defence alliance, not an offence alliance." tell that to Yugoslavia. NATO members attack others, the fact not all join - is irrelevant. "hey, 5 of us are a gang, two went to kick shit of some dude on the street. Rest were lazy. We are defensive gang of course"

"who not only are neo-Nazis but also joined the pro-Russian forces against Ukraine during Donbass..." - so you basically agree that that Donbass should not be Ukranian as it is so Russian that even Russian Nazi help locals to fight for independence or joining Russia? Double plus good!

"Neither EU nor the US invaded Yugoslavia." - right, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_b..._of_Yugoslavia

[_ONH_]

I don't see the benefit in what they're doing here. But, since they've publicized the idea of dropping support, I'm sure this will be the end of their contract regardless. Russia seems to have a very low tolerance for those who express opposition.

Well, the dev (which seems to be an german university employee) who inserted the merge reequest wih code developed two other developers came to the conclusion he didn't want to expliciply support military hw.
And instead of asking to search someone else to care for the hw, he asked to remove it since ther is no particuliar use for general population.

So it is a moove to preimptivele remove support for unmaintained hw.
Moste project restrain from this and carry on with disfunctional rotten code to hinders progress for live hw.

IMHO hw specific code should be marked as unsuportet if not tested within the last year of development of new releases and removed 2 years after the last ci run was made on it. If someone is interessted in keeping the hw supported he can either pick up testing (which should be done anyway before productive deployment), commit/finance someone to maintain it or either stay on the old unmaintained or long term supported branches of the software.

Once in a while we see that garbage surface after 5 to 10 years of the software failing to work on its intended hw.

[dimko]

So, it's okay to invade anywhere that has some bad people who don't like you?


I'm trying to understand your position. Are you saying Iraq and Yugoslavia were okay or not? Because if not, then you should also condemn Putin going into Ukraine.

Now, there's an important difference, as well. Neither Iraq nor Yugoslavia were about conquering and annexing territory. There was always the intent for them to be independent, autonomous, and democratic countries. Not to annex them. And just focusing on Iraq (because that was more recent and one I know more about) that's exactly what happened! There were several leaders elected there who were hostile to US interests and ejected it in 2010.

"I'm trying to understand your position. Are you saying Iraq and Yugoslavia were okay or not? Because if not, then you should also condemn Putin going into Ukraine." i condemn NATO for being two faced. Strongest partners attack others and later have audacity to point fingers at others.
I wish Russia did not attack Ukraine.
I also wish Russia did not find itself in position where it made decision to attack Ukraine.
My father is somewhere in Donbas. I hope still alive...

"Not to annex them." No one from EU came to overwatch democratic elections in Crimea, NO ONE! WHY? Before Russia annexed Crimea. Tells me all I need to know about institutions of democracy in EU and US.
Honestly, since i speak russian and I did speak to actual Crimeans - I can tell, people from there WANTED to be part of Russia and wanted not to be part of Ukrain. With small vocal minority of Crimeans Tatars, who jsut wanted weak Ukrain, as they had better chance at "independence".

"Not to annex them." - you dont need to annex someone in modern world, if you put your culture in countries border. Which US and EU fail to do at every step.

[dimko]

In case you haven't heard, Russians in Russia are getting locked up for less than this.

Locked up, than released. Cycle continues. At least no one gets into concentration camps and no one gets harvested. Also note how Russians don't burn their own cities. That is example of civilized people btw

[mdedetrich]

It should be removed just for diffrent reason.

Not political, but simply that there isn't "free" userspace that can use it. There isn't a reason why OpenBLAS developers are supposed to maintain it, or even accept upstream of that unless those processors reach public use.

If i google Elbrus E2000 there simply isn't anything like how I can buy it, where is development manuals, boards with it etc. There is only !!! 6 google pages of results and most are related to OpenBLAS itself... Why I should maintain something so niche?

As far as I know its only being used by the military and possibly government hence why you can't find any info on it.

Also puts a bit more merit into the whole banning thing although it could be pure symbolism due to dealing with open source.