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OpenBLAS Deciding Whether To Drop Support For Russia's Elbrus CPUs

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  • Originally posted by Markospox View Post
    I've got an idea, what if an updated, faulty version was pushed, if baddies update, rockets launch in unpredictable directions into air and ex after 20 meters or don't launch, if able to do that at all, it would be faulty only for that processor?
    Something about this is going too far for me. I guess the problem I have with it is that you can't know all the harm that bug could do. If you specifically hacked the the code of a military system, that'd be a different matter. But, because this software is dual-use, I wouldn't be comfortable with the idea of affecting its use in other sorts of equipment or applications.

    Looking at it from a strictly practical standpoint, I'd say it'd be difficult to pull off. The Elbrus maintainers are probably going to review any modifications specific to their CPU.


    • Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
      Leipero, we already knew before it started what was going to happen... at least I did foresee it happening..
      You just need to look and see, how they blocked all Russia Media first to then start a false narrative, you can start by that point.
      That's not true. For instance, the UK didn't pull RT's broadcasting license until several weeks into the war. And that's because the British don't allow broadcasters owned by a political entity, which RT clearly is. Even so, people in the UK can still access RT content online. If they really wanted to cancel RT, they'd also have blocked its website.

      As for your point about a "false narrative", you know there are 4.7 million refugees that fled Ukraine, so far? How can anyone imagine the truth won't emerge with those people? I guess Russian media is probably interviewing all the ones in Russia, or at least who are saying pro-Russian things, but if "western" media weren't reporting the story that the refugees fleeing into Europe were telling, then everyone there would know it.

      Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
      So Western countries are siding with the Nazis,
      They're not, but I get that you're just high on the Russian state propaganda. But why is it that the Russians are in such a minority who are saying this? Can you really believe everyone not in Russia's influence is corrupt?

      Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
      I am researching the Ukrainian conflict since 2014!
      Research starts with a hypothesis which you then try to disprove in the best way(s) possible. If all you're doing is reading a one-sided narrative, that's not research.

      Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
      Like I said, the sad part is that I don't get more shocked anymore, I only get more sad at each day, because this mass genocide started in 2014 and in 2022 the world failed to exterminate nazism in Ukraine, and the only country that is fighting it is Russia( that's why they are so heavily sanctioned).
      Or, in 2014, Putin showed his true nature yet again, by taking over Crimea and sparking the insurrection in Donbas and Luhansk, but the world didn't take him very seriously. And now, in 2022, he's doing what we all knew he was capable of, after watching how Russia waged war in Syria.

      Answer me this: if Russia is doing so much good in the world, why is it that Russia conveniently stands to benefit from these actions?

      And if de-natzification were the true objective of the war in Ukraine, why wasn't that in the terms Russia put forth to NATO, last December?

      Russia is now running through the list of all reasons given for every other war, in the past century, to the point that it's almost absurd. Nazis, genocide, and weapons of mass destruction. If Russia were truly concerned about these issues, it would have first raised them and sought action through the UN. Instead, they could only speak internationally about NATO expansionism, and after their war started to go horribly wrong, we hear these other excuses.

      Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
      They are alone in a fight,
      That should make you suspicious. If they were really doing so much good, they should have lots of allies.

      Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
      But let me tell you, that sooner or later good will prevail against evil,
      It's nice to think so, but what often happens is that the fires of war burn out and the world moves on. There have been many empires throughout history, but none has lasted forever.

      Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
      at least I do hope so, otherwise we are doomed as a specie!
      We probably are, but military expansionism is probably going to take a back seat to destruction of the environment, in terms of bringing about our downfall. Russia isn't on the right side of either one, FWIW.


      • Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
        Elbrus is for commercial/scientific/academic use..
        But not originally or only those uses.


        • Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
          To speak frankly, I was amazed how Russia managed to stabilize the region,in around 4 years..
          Not to mention Kurds, with US support. They're still sitting atop a pile of ISIS prisoners, with almost no help from anyone.

          Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
          Does you knew that, some part of the marauders and terrorists in Syrian flocked to Ukraine?
          To fight alongside Putin? Yes, we've heard.

          Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
          The US is sending weapons, so that they can kill each other, but its Ukraine that will pay the bill,
          Just to be clear, the US is not selling weapons to Ukraine. They're a donation for Ukraine's defense.

          Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
          Ukraine is what the US wanted the most:
          No, or else maybe the US would have pushed France & Germany to accept it into NATO.

          The US doesn't want to care about Russia. Ever since the fall of the USSR, the US didn't have much reason to see Russia as a threat, but Putin seems somehow determined to change that.

          Why do you buy into Putin's victim mindset? He's like the bad boy, acting out in class, and then complaining that his punishment is because the teacher hates him.

          Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
          The most problems Europe has, the better for the US.
          I'm not sure why you would think that. Most of the European countries are the strongest allies the US has. There's no value in weakening them.

          Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
          Now the thing is... Ukraine right now doesn't even have food to give to its people, is very sad,
          Because Russia is deliberately bombing food warehouses. And it's obviously deliberate, when they're bombing one after another.

          Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
          The most stupid thing that can happen to a Country...
          You don't even had money for food to give to your own people, but you are asking for trillions do dollars of weapons...
          If something sounds too stupid to believe, maybe you shouldn't.

          Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
          The American people is messed up, they don't construct logical thinking from the beginning,
          I wonder if it occurred to you that two logical people can reach different conclusions on the basis of different facts and assumptions?

          Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
          What I think is that values are passed from father to son, along all generations..there are no other way..
          When you have a break in this chain, because families are not anymore "traditional" or conservative, your children's will grow up like animals only( no Humanity there ), without acquiring the real values of a human being..
          I think one mark of humanity is not to look down on others as "animals". A classic trope of sewing division is to dehumanize the others.

          Did your Catholic upbringing not teach you the virtues of humility? You know that Jesus hung out with sinners, right? He didn't look down on them as "animals".


          • Originally posted by leipero View Post
            there were other invented names in Syria that were declared "good guys", and ofc. Assad is "insane dictator", it's really "a classic" example of most primitive propaganda one could imagine.
            You're right about one thing: the US wanted to get involved in Syria but essentially created a "Free Syrian Army", because it couldn't really ally itself with any of the existing factions on the ground. After training and arming them, this FSA group then quickly dissolved.

            However, Obama really didn't want to get involved in Syria. After Iraq and Libya, another war in the Middle East was the last thing he wanted. It's only when ISIS began to pose a serious threat to stability in Iraq that the US had to go in.

            Originally posted by leipero View Post
            Ofc. "we" (US/EU/whoever is on that side) are the "good guys", and famous "democracy and freedom vs dictatorship" nonsense. It serves 2 purposes, it's a "feel good" personal projection of the population, and it goes into the interest of the corrupt people who are manipulating truth.
            A lot of Americans didn't support the war in Iraq or Vietnam. Having a free press can undermine the government's narrative. The fact that Russian media doesn't reveal anything unflattering about the Russian government is that much more reason not to trust it. I find it interesting that a couple of non-Russians are apparently the only ones who believe their lies.

            Originally posted by leipero View Post
            That's the core idea of Nazism or "exceptionalism" (US method), they are basically the same, both believe in superiority, the only difference is that Nazis believe in superiority by "race" ("Aryan race"), while in exceptionalism, you believe in superiority of "culture", for the most part "democracy" and similar feel good nonsense.
            Are you saying that neither you nor the Russian nationalists feel exceptional? And didn't Putin write articles and make speeches about how Russia and Ukraine should join because of their shared ethnic identity?

            Originally posted by leipero View Post
            Now, it would be hard for average American or European to say "yup, I live in corrupt country where evil people are on the power"
            Apparently, you've never talked to average Americans. People say that sort of thing all the time. But that's a different discussion.

            Originally posted by leipero View Post
            they have been killed for 8+ years by Nazis for only one reason = because they are Russians,
            To the limited extent this is true, it's primarily because of Russia's own meddling in Ukraine that they stoked these divisions. And then tried to play them up, for their own advantage.

            Originally posted by leipero View Post
            it is exact same reason why OpenBLAS is deciding to drop Elbrus CPU support, only one reason = It's Russian.
            It's not, but I know you care more about narrative than facts.

            Originally posted by leipero View Post
            Same reason why Huawei is banned in the US = It's Chinese
            It's only banned from government use. Someone could legally import and use a Huawei phone. A private company can even buy Huawei equipment. Furthermore, there are plenty of Chinese brands than aren't banned in the US.

            With that said, I don't agree with most of Trump's measures, on the trade war. He overplayed his hand and shunned our allies, but then he never was much good at business.

            Originally posted by leipero View Post
            That is the main reason why Russians are so careful to have as little civilians killed,
            Quite the opposite. The Russians have been shelling and bombing mostly civilian targets, failing to honor humanitarian corridors, and even perpetrating massacres. The evidence on all of these points is quite clear, though RT isn't going to tell you about it.

            Originally posted by leipero View Post
            mainly US will profit in this conflict,
            Not really. It's increasing fuel prices, and that works its way through the rest of the economy. As you pointed out, inflation is already a big enough problem. We really didn't need prices to rise yet further.

            Originally posted by leipero View Post
            US will sell weapons
            The weapons are privately produced and purchased by the US government and NATO allies. So, it's true that the defense industry is profiting from this. However, the defense sector is a very small part of the overall economy. Any influence they have wouldn't be enough to sway policy makers into the actions they took.

            Try as you might, you really can't blame Putin's invasion of Ukraine on the US. That war is the fault of Putin, not anyone else.


            • Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
              Yes, it was Ukrainians of ethnic Russian communities that were mass murdered in Bucha.
              And yes the nazis did it,
              That's not true at all. They were murdered in Russian-occupied areas, and the corpses were already old by the time the Russians withdrew. There's basically no way it could've been anyone besides the Russian military.

              But Russian state media would never admit that. Can you imagine such a thing?


              • Originally posted by leipero View Post
                it's much easier to have delusions in it, especially with "social networks" and platforms. While things you've mentioned probably do matter as well, I think "mass delusion" is so much easier with "(anti)-social networks".
                For all their ills and problems, one of the few good things about social media is how they give ordinary people the ability to share their situation with the world. Perhaps not coincidentally, Russia "cancelled" the big ones.

                BTW, one thing I wish for you is that Russia doesn't succeed in using Serbia as a pawn in its power games. War is never a good thing. Don't forget that.


                • Originally posted by coder View Post
                  It's no, though. If you want to fight Russophobia, then go find a project unrelated to the Russian military that's being "cancelled" and stand up for it.
                  I consider myself a good person, and I can't stand injustice.. not only Russophobia.
                  Elbrus is not related to the military, instead it is Russia efforts to be technology independent.
                  And openBlas is also not a Military project, I don't understand why you are assuming they are Military projects..

                  Originally posted by coder View Post
                  Either you're picking the wrong hill to stand on, in order to wage your war, or you're waging the wrong war while standing on this one. Either way, your point aligns poorly with the facts of the case.
                  What "facts" are you talking about?
                  the fact that someone is targeting Russians because they are developing they own CPU...well the US has lots of archs, why openBlas don't drop them too?
                  After all the West are sending tones of weapons for the nazis to mass genocide the other half of the country, so why openBlas doesn't cancel West archs support?
                  right, because its a racist thing against the Russian speaking population, and its toxic for open-source.

                  The Reality is that the West Ukrainians are mass killing the Eastern Ukrainians for 8 long years, and nobody seems to give a fck about that.
                  On the contrary there are people that are in favour of sending more weapons so that they can kill more in the same amount of time..disgusting.

                  The collective West is all for "War is Business, and Business is good!", and they are sending 2 trillions or more to Ukraine in weapons, but the Ukrainians will have to pay for them and at 5 years, they will pay 300%..its disgusting!

                  In the meantime is Russia that is feeding the Ukrainians till now with more than 11000 tones of food, because they don't even have food!
                  get your facts right, what is being proposed for openBlas is injustice.


                  • Originally posted by coder View Post
                    But not originally or only those uses.
                    Originally computers were only used in the military, and its not only a Soviet Union thing, the same thing happened in the West.
                    But that was long time ago.

                    Now Since Edward Snowden, Russia wants to have independence, and is developing Elbrus, since 2014.
                    China is doing the same, India is doing the same, Even EU is doing the same, with the European Processor Initiative

                    Now, this doesn't mean they are used in Weapons, because those are primarily being created for Commercial/Academic/Scientific use( weapons hardware its a different thing.. ).

                    Military hardware, are protected, they need to be Rad Resistant,high temperatures ranges, they have a lot of factors on them that their production cycles are closed, from the public.
                    And usually that hardware is produced in house( all conglomerate companies that work for the military ).. its secret stuff.

                    Moreover Elbrus doesn't feet the Idea of a Embedded device for weapons, Elbrus is big, consumes a lot of power, is not Rad Resistant, and so on!
                    Its not even a embedded arch..

                    Clearly there are people that don't understand that... you can't just put a commercial processor in a missile!
                    The assumption that you can/should, is silly and dangerous from the start.
                    By the way, go ask your military if they use commercial CPUs in missiles or so,
                    Spoiler Alert, they can't, because they want a secure/reliable missile!

                    Those High-tech missiles Russia has, use top-notch hardware created specifically to do 'one job and do it well'!
                    They are special ASICs, and they are produced in military facilities inside the Russian Military complex industries( its a complete closed production cycle )..
                    How do you expect them to achieve maximum precision of a mere meter while travelling at mach10..can't you see that you can't use "civilian bloatware" in it?

                    Now, with all that being said,
                    I believe those that are attacking Elbrus on openBlas support, they are doing it because...its Russian!
                    Just like that, Russophobic ideas, and that way of thinking is toxic..

                    Because otherwise,
                    If they would like to have "some moral grounds", they would have to drop x86/ARM, others too, including Chinese one, European one, etc( ofcourse in the end they would endup with no arch supported..that's why its a silly and dangerous idea from the beginning.. ).
                    Why are they only targeting Elbrus?
                    They are trying to persecute something because its Russian made, at least they should tell people the truth, instead of lying!


                    • Originally posted by coder View Post
                      That's not true at all. They were murdered in Russian-occupied areas, and the corpses were already old by the time the Russians withdrew. There's basically no way it could've been anyone besides the Russian military.
                      You know that's not true..
                      Its very well known that only some 4 days after Russian troops withdrew from Bucha , that those bodies started appearing on the streets.
                      Its documented!
                      More over,
                      Those Satellites images showed are FAKE!They were taken in different days, if taken at all.
                      Why we know?
                      Because there were no Satellites from that company over that zone of Ukraine in the days they said they took those pictures...yes it can be verified!
                      They were already refuted,
                      Also not even the sun illumination with its shadows in the ground match the days/hours that those pictures were supposedly taken..this is Science, we canĀ“t beat it!!
                      Those images can be independently verified by any big Secret Services Agency interested...its Science, you can't hide it...its proven technology.

                      If you look into those bodies, you will see that those bodies have a White Bandage in the arm, yes it means those civilians were fighting for the Russian side!
                      In other words they were Ethnic Russians!
                      Who do you think killed ethnic Russians?...the Russians?of-course not, it was the nazis!

                      More evidence,
                      Some corpses are in fake positions, they can't have being killed on those positions.. you can look for example the guy in a Bicycle, its body was laid down in that position, otherwise he would not be able to fall in movement from the bicycle on that positions( he was shot dead in a different place )..
                      There are tons of evidence..and a real investigation could be done,but no real investigation will be done( because it will expose the nazis )!

                      Moreover, why Bucha, is all of a sudden very important...
                      But 8 years of genocide is not?Genocide in Ukraine started in 2014..that people started to be worried with Human Rights...only in Bucha??? right..

                      Now, what you can ask is... who benefited from this episode?
                      Clearly is not the Russians that are benefiting from who have interests in "painting" that scenario?
                      But the answers to that, .. coder .. you already know!!
                      I am not saying nothing knew.

                      Bucha was staged to be used against Russia in the UN Human Rights Council...that's it!
                      They killed that people( because for the nazis the ethnic Russians are not human people ) to blame Russia, and make Russia exit the UN HRC...that was the objective!

                      They murdered people, just to have a political tool..disgusting!
                      Here you have the truth..
                      Originally posted by coder View Post
                      But Russian state media would never admit that. Can you imagine such a thing?
                      Russia state media, called for a independent investigation
                      France called for a independent investigation..because France knows what's going on on the ground..France is part of NATO..
                      Russia, for what I understand, provided already their own investigation,
                      But they are ready to work in a international group if someone wants..but the thing one wants!!

                      Why do you think no one wants???
                      You know ...there are forensic, and scientific tools to determine with exact results, when that people were shot dead, the positions of the bodies in the ground, and the time frame where those pictures were taken.its can't fool science!