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OpenBLAS Deciding Whether To Drop Support For Russia's Elbrus CPUs

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  • I've got an idea, what if an updated, faulty version was pushed, if baddies update, rockets launch in unpredictable directions into air and ex after 20 meters or don't launch, if able to do that at all, it would be faulty only for that processor?
    Last edited by Markospox; 08 April 2022, 04:48 PM.

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    • Originally posted by leipero View Post
      [USER="92027"]
      Anyway, here's some "Russian propaganda":
      https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/bucha_time...FYGpDuZFDnNwyN
      and quite logical explanation:
      https://odysee.com/@LandDestroyer:8/...FYGpDuZFDnNwyN
      Leipero, we already knew before it started what was going to happen... at least I did foresee it happening..
      You just need to look and see, how they blocked all Russia Media first to then start a false narrative, you can start by that point.

      In Syrian war, Russian media showed what was happening on the ground, and the Associated Press lost a lot of credibility to a lot of people worldwide.
      In this situation, they would not let Russian media open( that would mean commit the same mistake twice..or-course when you start to block access to media, you are automatically a dictatorship ), so that people can judge by themselves what is happening on the ground..

      But you think Bucha is bad...man.. the nazis are exterminating a lot of Russian speakers in Ukraine for 8 long years, Bucha is only one more place were it happened, its being happening in all Ukraine.
      You know I am Christian Catholic(From roman empire),
      And we have a say "Tell me with you usually go, and I will tell you who you are!"
      So Western countries are siding with the Nazis, what should I call them( and in that I include my own country too..shame )?!

      I didn't even need to see those videos, about Bucha, I already knew, because I am researching the Ukrainian conflict since 2014!
      I know what's going on on the ground, I know when the nazis started to rise in Ukraine, when they overthrow the government and tried to assassinate the unique president Ukraine had since then democratically elected( President Yanukovich )...(Poroshenko and Zelinsky are puppet regimes installed after that).

      And I don't get more shocked anymore, because I know whats going on since 2014 in Ukraine..
      Yesterday they fired a Tochka-U Cluster bomb missile into Kramatorsk, in donbass, in a humanitarian corridor.
      But they have fired in the last month at least 3 in donbass( they killed hundreds of people with those missiles already) people, the others were intercepted by Missile defense systems of donbass or of Russia..

      Like I said, the sad part is that I don't get more shocked anymore, I only get more sad at each day, because this mass genocide started in 2014 and in 2022 the world failed to exterminate nazism in Ukraine, and the only country that is fighting it is Russia( that's why they are so heavily sanctioned).
      They are alone in a fight, of the good against evil..

      But let me tell you, that sooner or later good will prevail against evil, at least I do hope so, otherwise we are doomed as a specie!




      Comment


      • Originally posted by Markospox View Post
        I've got an idea, what if an updated, faulty version was pushed, if baddies update, rockets launch in unpredictable directions into air and ex after 20 meters or don't launch, if able to do that at all, it would be faulty only for that processor?
        Afaik Elbrus is not used in missile systems, they use another archs..
        Elbrus is for commercial/scientific/academic use..
        Its not even rad resistant to begin with..the same characteristics that are needed for Military are exactly the same for Space industry, and they are very tight.

        Russia has a closed cycle of production for the military, they will never rely on imports, and its easy to understand why..

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        • tuxd3v Yup, and that is a good saying. I personally do not subscribe to any religion, my family comes from Othodox and Catholic Christian (tho. I probably do have some Native American blood as well in traces) ones, but in every "common folk wisdom" you have examples of those wise sayings.

          I know all of that, I had a (mis)fortune to see it myself, it really is a copy-paste of everything before (Syria, Iraq etc.), in Syria for example, whenever ISIS (ISIL or whatever the name is) terrorists were losing, there would be some false flag nonsense to blame Asad government.

          I was reading comments under that creature Ursula whatever the f her name is tweet about EU sanctions etc., and man, there are far more US users commenting with "You are not doing anything" and so on, and I find it quite unusual, because what those "users" are suggesting is "send weapons, troops" or "close the sky" or something idiotic like that..., I was in shock ofc., first, if those people are real and not bots, how can anyone be so stupid, and second, that they are completely devoted of reality.

          Another interesting observation from all of this is the fact that a lot of people are "disconnected from reality" in "digital age", and that's scary stuff as well on many levels. I don't know any suitable strategy to fight that situation, and that's even more scary.

          Ofc. that all of it is very predictable, but to not be shocked, you must lose all of the "faith" in, not humanity, but basic intelligence of the human beings, it seems like we regressed a lot in that sphere. Good will win over evil, as long as you fight it.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by leipero View Post
            Yup, and that is a good saying. I personally do not subscribe to any religion, my family comes from Othodox and Catholic Christian (tho. I probably do have some Native American blood as well in traces) ones, but in every "common folk wisdom" you have examples of those wise sayings.

            I know all of that, I had a (mis)fortune to see it myself, it really is a copy-paste of everything before (Syria, Iraq etc.), in Syria for example, whenever ISIS (ISIL or whatever the name is) terrorists were losing, there would be some false flag nonsense to blame Asad government.
            Well, I am not a very religious person, I just take what is good, the rest..I don´t care much because religions can, and was in the past( and will continue to be used in less developed countries ), used to destroy other humans..
            But still there are some good things here and there, I just take those for my orientation..

            I followed the Syrian conflict from the beginning very closely( like the Ukrainian one.. ), and the Syrian conflict, for me is the most complex conflict after WWII, due to the amount of interests interfering in the region..
            To speak frankly, I was amazed how Russia managed to stabilize the region,in around 4 years..
            And for what I understood Russia was burning just ~3 million US/day( It seems a lot of money for us mundane humans..but for a War like that, it is really a low value.. )

            Yes, its the same script for Syria, Ukraine, the difference is that in the case of Ukraine they needed to change it a bit, and now the "aggressor" for the US/EU is Russia, while in Syria it was his own president Assad..
            Does you knew that, some part of the marauders and terrorists in Syrian flocked to Ukraine?
            true some warlords were living in Ukraine at least in 2019, freely..!
            There were a lot of Europeans fighting in Syria for money, for rapes, just for pleasure to kill, and so on( including from my country.. ).

            But essentially there are a big difference between Syria and Ukraine..
            In Syria US was investing a lot of money without no signs of return..
            In Ukraine is different,
            The US is sending weapons, so that they can kill each other, but its Ukraine that will pay the bill, do you see the difference?

            Ukraine is what the US wanted the most:
            War is Business, and Business is good!
            Why is it good?
            Because that people is the one that will suffer, the US as no "boots on the ground" which means less spending too, and they know that Ukraine will pay the bill because its the Ukrainian President that are asking for weapons
            Its also working in relation to EU/Nato which is also deteriorating its relation with Moscow so that is good for the US.
            The most problems Europe has, the better for the US.

            Now the thing is... Ukraine right now doesn't even have food to give to its people, is very sad,
            Since beginning of March alone Russia already sent 10000 tonnes of food to Ukraine, they are preparing more around 23000 tones to send there.
            They started delivering food to Ukraine in Final of February, its very chaotic..

            The most stupid thing that can happen to a Country...
            You don't even had money for food to give to your own people, but you are asking for trillions do dollars of weapons...that just kill the population, and that same population some how will have to pay, even if they don't have nothing to eat..just because half of the country, thinks the other half needs to be exterminated..

            Originally posted by leipero View Post
            I was reading comments under that creature Ursula whatever the f her name is tweet about EU sanctions etc., and man, there are far more US users commenting with "You are not doing anything" and so on, and I find it quite unusual, because what those "users" are suggesting is "send weapons, troops" or "close the sky" or something idiotic like that..., I was in shock ofc., first, if those people are real and not bots, how can anyone be so stupid, and second, that they are completely devoted of reality.

            Another interesting observation from all of this is the fact that a lot of people are "disconnected from reality" in "digital age", and that's scary stuff as well on many levels. I don't know any suitable strategy to fight that situation, and that's even more scary.
            The American people is messed up, they don't construct logical thinking from the beginning, its very primitive..you can´t expect nothing good from US..but you should already know that, by this time..
            Second World war was when the US made something good, and it was because they felt threatened by the nazis( because until then , as you know, they were allied with them.. ).
            After that they only created chaos and destruction were they went..
            They never had 2 World Wars...normal people can and should learn from mistakes, but stupid people will commit those same mistakes again, and again, and never learn from it..

            Go and ask to EU how many tonnes of food they have sent, how many hospital help they sent...you will be shocked.
            They send weapons, EU is stupidly following the same "american way of doing business"..
            Also EU failed in big,
            Because they( France/Germany ), were obligated to force Ukraine to implement the Minsk Agreements, and they instead opted for not doing so.
            Basically the War in Ukraine was in the hands of EU all this time, and EU didn't cared less, the US supported war since beginning with NATO.

            Well, I don't think that is the Digital era that is affecting the people...
            What I think is that values are passed from father to son, along all generations..there are no other way..
            When you have a break in this chain, because families are not anymore "traditional" or conservative, your children's will grow up like animals only( no Humanity there ), without acquiring the real values of a human being..
            Any parents have the obligation to teach humanity to its children's, but nowadays only a small portions of this parents do it..
            Now in a World corrupt full of fake mass media, bombarding people all the time with fake things, the most weak get distracted from reality..and if they have not the basic tools of a human being, that is catastrophic..

            I don't even thing you have the obligation to teach humanity to adults...it will work only in a very small sample of people( the smart or relatively interested in the subject )..
            Humanity is learnt when you are a kid, when you are growing up.. when you are already an adult person..majority of time its already too late!
            The parents of that person are the ones that have the obligation to teach its children's..
            Originally posted by leipero View Post
            Good will win over evil, as long as you fight it.
            true, and as long as you continue win it..!

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            • tuxd3v The idea is simple actually "declare criminals as good guys", for example, Zelensky and rest of the Ukranian government should be in prison for what they did since 2014. (and before for that matter), and they likely will.
              Then, you declare good guys to be criminals and push propaganda further. So, ISIS were not really a good guys, but, there were other invented names in Syria that were declared "good guys", and ofc. Assad is "insane dictator", it's really "a classic" example of most primitive propaganda one could imagine. Ofc. "we" (US/EU/whoever is on that side) are the "good guys", and famous "democracy and freedom vs dictatorship" nonsense. It serves 2 purposes, it's a "feel good" personal projection of the population, and it goes into the interest of the corrupt people who are manipulating truth.
              For example, every American or European would "feel good about him/herself" if he/she thinks that "we are free world", but, if you have such irrational belief in your domestic population, you can project "but we have to save X people from evil Y dictator", and it will work, as long as majority of your population is oblivious to the facts of the reality around them.
              That's the core idea of Nazism or "exceptionalism" (US method), they are basically the same, both believe in superiority, the only difference is that Nazis believe in superiority by "race" ("Aryan race"), while in exceptionalism, you believe in superiority of "culture", for the most part "democracy" and similar feel good nonsense.

              Now, it would be hard for average American or European to say "yup, I live in corrupt country where evil people are on the power" simply because that's in direct contradiction of "exceptionalism/Nazism" ideology.

              The big difference between Ukraine and Syria is that in Ukraine there are Russians (at least 30-40%, in reality probably over 70% when self-declaration is excluded and objective reality observed), and they have been killed for 8+ years by Nazis for only one reason = because they are Russians, that's the "primary sin", basically, the same as the topic we are discussing on, while directly/seemingly unrelated, it is exact same reason why OpenBLAS is deciding to drop Elbrus CPU support, only one reason = It's Russian. Same reason why Huawei is banned in the US = It's Chinese (ofc. for that is used "security threat" excuse, like Android or Windows are not a security threat across the globe..., it's nonsense without principles...). That is the main reason why Russians are so careful to have as little civilians killed, and that's exact same reason why "Ukranians" have no issue to kill civilians (Buca example, they killed mostly people with "white band" on their arms = people who do not support Ukro-Nazis and then blamed Russia ofc.).

              War is business for some sides, mainly US will profit in this conflict, everyone else is on the lost. US is in economicaly terrible situation, debt is insane, and you don't need to be an economist to figure out that is really bad, inflation is high in past 2 decades, nothing is so sudden or "Putin fault". So, US will sell weapons to Ukraine, to other EU countries because of "threat of Russia", potentially even gas/oil and so on. EU will lose a lot, because they will need to pay much more for all of that, Russia will be at loss as well on the short run. So everyone loses really, hence why my first comment about Ursula and other unelected morons from the "EU". Keep in mind that, despite what the goal is, US is one of the few (if not only) countries that did actually profit from WW2.

              I think it's highly related to a "digital age", it's much easier to have delusions in it, especially with "social networks" and platforms. While things you've mentioned probably do matter as well, I think "mass delusion" is so much easier with "(anti)-social networks".

              Comment


              • leipero
                Yes, it was Ukrainians of ethnic Russian communities that were mass murdered in Bucha.
                And yes the nazis did it, and yes EU/USA knows that very well, as we all do.

                Nazism is on the rise right now.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by leipero View Post
                  tuxd3v I just finished reading some "western" articles, and one amazing one for Daily Mail,
                  I don't read it, so I don't say this with much authority, but isn't Daily Mail a tabloid? If so, you probably shouldn't be using it as a representative sample of "western" journalism.

                  Originally posted by leipero View Post
                  claiming that "Buca massacre"
                  Nit-picking some details doesn't invalidate the broader story.

                  Originally posted by leipero View Post
                  It's scary stuff when such people of questionable intelligence and/or ethics are in place of influencing other people, the level of hate they are spreading is insane.
                  You know this comment cuts both ways, right?

                  What I still don't understand is how you accept Russia's own narrative of its war as the ground truth. Even during the 2003 Iraq war, plenty of critical information was published in the Western (and even US-based) media. If you're not seeing anything unflattering in Russian news, then how can you really believe they're telling you the truth?

                  Originally posted by leipero View Post
                  I urge people to not use google services at all (yt, gmail etc.), they have proven they are tools of the US attempt to keep it's hegemony
                  I find it sad that the only way it seems you can make sense of the world is in terms of competing hegemonies. Google really doesn't care about the US, nor does the US really care about Google.

                  Moreover, the US didn't have some anti-Russia agenda, before it started invading its neighbors. If Russia had followed in the path of a country like Germany, it could enjoy both commercial success and be a fully respected member of the international community. Putin needs to get past this archaic 19th century thinking that the path to power, wealth, and respect is one that can be forged militarily. More likely, Russia needs to somehow get past Putin.

                  Originally posted by leipero View Post
                  Huawei uses it's own services (since, surprise - surprise, it's banned by the US, and removed from google support), so that would be a good option,
                  You've jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire. I don't know why you'd want to trust the Chinese, given their rampant censorship and social credit system. Xi Jinping basically is Big Brother.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
                    Victim? The difference was between assuming if you're arguing in bad or good faith.
                    You're missing the point. The point was that you presumed to be wronged, and the only question you pose is whether the injury was willful. That's a pretty good way to poison any exchange.

                    Casting yourself as the victim is a clear indication you're not operating in good faith. This is consistent with your preoccupation with cancel culture, which tends to resonate most strongly with those susceptible to a victim mindset.

                    Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
                    In this case we're talking about not putting in an active effort to punitively punish an ISA for it's relation to the country that developed it.
                    You need to stop pulling this shit out of your imagination and instead look at the actual facts. I'm not going to debate your stupid strawman.

                    Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
                    To again use an analogy; This is like a sandwich shop owner refusing service to the relative of a criminal.
                    It's not, though. Elbrus was created for Russian government and military applications, many of which require functionality of a package like OpenBLAS. You can be virtually assured that any effort to support OpenBLAS on these CPUs is providing some benefit to military and defense applications. It's almost unthinkable they wouldn't use OpenBLAS on it, at some point.

                    It's almost like you're trying to use analogies to distract from the actual facts, which really aren't so hard to understand.

                    Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
                    That's kind of my point... ELBRUS may have been created by Russia in an effort to achieve some form of technological independence and it's used in plenty of perfectly benign applications. Particularly a with compute library meant for scientific applications
                    It should be obvious that nobody is using it for any serious science. Its performance is too poor for that. You're just seizing on the excuse that because it can be used for non-military/government purposes, that we shouldn't treat it as a piece of military technology. That's actually the opposite of how "dual-use" technologies are typically regarded.

                    Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
                    We are after all talking about the equivalent of sanctioning a scientific journal.
                    L_O_L. Another whopper.

                    Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
                    Well that's a pretty lame misdirection when I talked about what he, or someone as crazy as him, could do once back in the oval office.
                    I was trying to focus on a very real and concrete example. However, if you'd rather move back into the realm of the hypothetical, then what I'd say is that I could understand maybe a French OSS project maintainer having refused to accept patches to support some DARPA-funded project, during the 2003 Iraq war. To me, that would be analogous.

                    Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
                    You're again missing that this is about starting a process that may eventually snowball into something genuinely destructive.
                    You can't seem to see any slope that's not slippery. If and when something is cancelled that shouldn't be, that is when to make your stand.

                    Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
                    nor did Weimar Germany slide into the holocaust overnight.
                    You're trying to argue as if the worst-case is the rule, not the exception. This is never a good argument.

                    If we'd treat everything according to its worst-case outcome, we wouldn't drive cars, ride bicycles, or even climb ladders.

                    Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
                    You're the one who's basically advocating for total war
                    Huh? I just said I can understand not wanting to accept a patch for that CPU. It provides a nonzero benefit. Not massive, but then providing aid in lots of small ways can add up to something nontrivial. How is that "total war"?

                    The one on a Jihad here isn't me. It's the guy who dragged a totally unrelated issue into this thread.

                    Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
                    I'm questioning the wisdom of the equivalent to sanctioning a scientific journal
                    No, you're not.

                    Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
                    To make a difference where you can make one.
                    Yes. And if you're an open source maintainer, not accepting a patch is where you can make a difference. Not a huge difference, but we're not talking about someone expressing their moral outrage by "liking" a post on social media, which would be a truly pointless, symbolic gesture.

                    Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
                    and for what? To inconvenience some academic research institutions.
                    You're alternately assuming the best and worst cases, on the basis of whether it helps your argument. That's pretty disingenuous thing to do.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
                      We live each and each time more in a multicultural world that doesn't need this type of Racism( sorry but...I just called it what it is.. ).
                      It's no, though. If you want to fight Russophobia, then go find a project unrelated to the Russian military that's being "cancelled" and stand up for it.

                      Either you're picking the wrong hill to stand on, in order to wage your war, or you're waging the wrong war while standing on this one. Either way, your point aligns poorly with the facts of the case.

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