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  • Originally posted by blacknova View Post
    You do understand that Russian Federation being multi-ethic country make it impossible to actually declare Putin a Nazi?
    That's like saying that Iran can't be antisemitic because they have Jews living there. They obviously are, but also they do (at least ~300k)!

    Or saying that the USA wasn't racist in the Jim Crow era, because of how many blacks lived there.

    Originally posted by blacknova View Post
    I mean there are 193 ethic groups in Russian Federation, they are not all Russian, that is more than there are countries in EU. So Putin can be Authoritarian - sure, dictator - may be. But Nazi
    I'm hesitant to go here, because I think it's not fundamental to the discussion. More than anything it shows how clumsy the label of Nazi actually is.

    However, since I've seen this claim about 193 ethnic groups come up repeatedly, let's do a little fact-check. Their definition of "ethnic groups" seems to conflate national origin.

    According to that, only 2 groups have more than 2%: "Russians" and Tartars. I think it's telling that "Russians" is one of the groups, BTW.

    If we lower the threshold to 1%, the 2010 census ranks a total of 6 groups above it, 5 of which are classified as being in the European Russia area. Two of these have Slavic languages (Russians and Ukranians), 3 have Turkic, and 1 is Northeast Caucasian. Doesn't seem terribly diverse, to me.

    Anyway, pursuing this a bit further, if you drop the threshold to 0.1%, then only about 36 groups make the cut. Again, that number seems inflated by splitting hairs between what's considered a distinct ethnic group. For instance, there are 41 groups from the "Caucus" region, 52 groups from "European Russia" region, 20 groups from the "Siberia" region, and 4 groups from "Moscow"!

    Further inflating the total, I see 31 groups with about 1000 or fewer persons counted. The least of which had just 78 individuals! And, in spite of that, I see no groups for any African or Central/South American country or region.

    So, I think we can call such claims of diversity grossly exaggerated.

    Originally posted by blacknova View Post
    Facsist he is not.
    I think you're confusing fascism with ethno-nationalism.


    • Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post
      This in stark contrast to other truly multicultural countries like Australia, Canada or USA (albeit they are not doing so well)
      I won't speak of elsewhere, but the USA clearly has more work to do. In this, I think it's not so much worse than most other multi-racial democracies, but that's not good enough.

      Still, the US has all its dirty laundry for the world to see. It's not that problems don't exist elsewhere, you just don't hear about them as much. That's not meant as an excuse, of course.

      Racism in America is something that will take longer to work through than anyone wants, but it's not as if no progress has been made in recent decades. However, this stands in contrast to other countries that have barely even acknowledged the issue.

      Since this is a thread about Russia, and blacknova was just touting Russia's diversity, let's see how Russia stands on this front:

      Most of the information seems rather dated. And the reported incidents numbers seem rather low, though it's possible that's due, in part, to under-reporting or the true lack of mixing between substantially different races/ethnicities.


      • Originally posted by blacknova View Post
        You also miss the historical side of multi-ethic and multi-cultural Russian Federation - the ethnicities are not segregated but rather live in places were these ethnicities were formed. This is very unlike countiries which were colonised but by migrations. If you look at large Russian or even any other post USSR cities were are very little segregation. So it is like this not due some malicious intent more like historical process. You not surprised that there more polish people in Poland or french in France?
        Okay, but then your point about its supposed diversity has even less merit. You seemed to be implying that high-diversity meant low racism, but if you're acknowledging little mixing of the ethnicities, then it's not a good barometer of how much racism actually exists.

        Anyway, I've already debunked the idea that Russia is very diverse, so it doesn't really matter if there's much mixing or not. I mean, if you consider Slavic + Turkic + Northeast Caucasian to be diversity, then sure, Russia's got that.


        • Originally posted by blacknova View Post
          Chechen wars have finished before Putin were elected as President or even put in position of Prime Minister.
          That's just blatantly wrong and quite ignorant, for someone to pronounce so assuredly. The second Chechen war is basically how Putin made a name for himself.

          Basic timeline:
          1. Khasavyurt Accord was signed on 31 August 1996. It included: ... the withdrawal of all federal forces from Chechnya by 31 December 1996
          2. Putin was appointed acting prime minister of the Government of the Russian Federation by President Yeltsin on 9 August 1999,
          3. Russia mounted a massive aerial campaign over Chechnya in late August and early September 1999. Eventually, Grozny was bombed to rubble.
          For more, see:"Unofficial sources estimate a range of 25,000 to 50,000 dead or missing, mostly Chechen civilians." and Chechnya's 2016 census indicates a population of only 1.4M. If you scale that up to a country the size of Ukraine, we're talking 736k to 1.47M. Of course, since each war is is bad in its own unique ways, I don't put any confidence in that estimate. I mention it only to put the second Chechnya war in perspective.


          • Originally posted by blacknova View Post
            I hope you will be happy to know that it is exactly Chechen's special forces are now leading the siege of some Ukrainian cities.
            What's your point? Do you know how instrumental some of the indigenous forces were in Britain's WWII campaigns?

            As I mentioned in another post in this thread, you can find countless examples of soldiers being drawn from the native peoples, throughout the history of colonialism. It's not as if 100% of the conquered people remain opposed to the empire. There are always some who, for whatever reason, decide to cast their lot with the powers that be.


            • Originally posted by coder View Post
              You just said you're partial to Russia! Doesn't matter why you're partial, whether it aligns with your country or not, but that bias is what makes your position untrustworthy.
              Why do you say that I am partial to Russia?
              I have my own values and opinions,
              I don't follow opinion from Russia or for that matter the United States, I have my own ways of finding what is happening and making a opinion out of it, reading both sides of the story..

              You can't create a reasonable opinion without reading both sides of a story...its impossible!
              That's were your logic and all your comments till now are failing, you are not debating the truth, you want everybody to accept your fictitious side of history.
              The world doesn't work that way, at least for several billions people on earth..

              Originally posted by coder View Post
              I don't watch conspiracy tube. If someone needs a video to sell their message, then their points probably don't stand up well without dramatic images and music.
              Well, you should at least listen to someone that is more experienced that you in world conflicts..
              I will let you another video from, Scott Ritter,
              The UN Weapons Inspector on Iraq "Weapons of Mass Destruction"... does that ring a bell in your stubborn head??
              The Video is Here, you should listen what he has to say about Ukraine,
              Because it does solve a lot of problems that you are having to Understand about some things..

              Originally posted by coder View Post
              It's been proven that youtube and similar video sharing platforms are powerful tools for indoctrinating extremists.
              So you say that people get Radicalized on Youtube, ..and you are afraid of that?


              • Originally posted by coder View Post
                This is merely childish and undermines your cause more than helping it.


                • Originally posted by leipero View Post
                  Can some of Phoronix members from Portugal go a bit more in details about "TV / STREAMING - Grupo Globo" in relation to "[Rede Globo] [É de Casa]". I've gave myself a right to reupload RT and other blocked media in the EU, they proclaimed rights on the video they have no relation with. Anyway, I disputed it, but I would prefer to know a bit more details on that shady company.
                  As far as I can tell,
                  They are the biggest Brazilian TV network.
                  I tried to search for contacts in their site, but I got lost there too,
                  They don't simply have a "Contacts" section in their pages, at least I couldn't find or understand one, sorry..


                  • Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post
                    Russian media is not free, you have a national censorhip agency that is forcing journalists to not say things and various Russian (not West) news sources have actually shut down/closed out of principle, because they don't want to lie to the Russian public.
                    I think you are forgeting the biggest ones..
                    Yeah, the USA,UK,China, the "good guys" disguised as beacons of freedom and Liberty...ho wait..
                    Never occurred to you that in the US alone a lot of people use VPNs, do you think they do it "for fun"?


                    • Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post
                      The media isn't blocked in the west, you can still get it by going directly to the website. It's just not distributed on platforms like Facebook or Twitter.
                      Again more lying from you
                      You know very well that that is not true..
                      Russian media was blocked, Russians are being hunted in several countries, their properties stolen, and so one..
                      Please at least some decency..