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  • Originally posted by h0tc0d3 View Post

    You know better than the inhabitants of Russia, you smeared your face with shit and you see nothing besides shit ... LOL
    I thought you said Russians always speak kindly of others, what exactly happened with that? How can you live with yourself?

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    • Originally posted by leipero View Post
      The thing is, none of the vountries in the "west" are independent, most EU countries are subordinate to the US, either via blackmail by US, or by corruption, some are on the US side ofc.
      That sounds like so many sour grapes.

      Not that Russians wouldn't know a thing or two about blackmail and corruption.

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      • Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
        I don't know about propaganda, but I am from South of Europe, so I play no role in what you describe as propaganda.
        Not sure about that, given your proclivity to parrot Russian talking points.

        Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
        Russians fought at the entry, to gain control of it, and they are now in control of it, but the facility is managed by Civilians..
        The video I saw shows clearly flares being launched, to improve visibility( it was a dark night ) for the forces on the ground, that's it!
        So no bombing occurred, that is propaganda.
        There's an unwritten rule that you don't fire a gun inside an airplane. If it breaks a window, the cabin could suffer rapid depressurization and someone could get sucked out (people do get sucked out of broken airplane windows!).

        It's a similar idea with a nuke plant. However badly the Russian forces wanted to take it, they should be smart enough not to fire into the complex or to drop flares into it, both of which risk damaging critical infrastructure needed to keep the radioactive cores cool. Failure to keep the cores cool results in a meltdown, like we saw in Chernobyl and Fukushima, except I'm reading these reactors are much bigger than the ones in Chernobyl.

        Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
        And if you stop a bit to think, do you really believe Russia would bomb a nuclear facility, that later will cause a lot of Russian deaths?
        You just think about it for a second, and you will see that's propaganda..
        There's no way to spin this that makes it not reflect poorly on Russia.

        Also, a power plan is civilian infrastructure and the weather is still very cold. They should've left it alone. If they wanted to cut power to Ukranian military sites, that doesn't require taking out a huge power plant.

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        • Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
          You just ask Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, etc, if NATO is a defensive alliance..
          The more you talk, the more you reveal your ignorance. Iraq was not a NATO action, nor was Syria. Some NATO countries happened to join those efforts.

          The only ones that were truly NATO operations were Afghanistan and Libya. Afghanistan was retaliation for the 9/11 attacks on the US, that were launched and directed out of Afghanistan, by a group which Afghanistan's government was continuing to protect.

          Libya was a NATO operation authorized by the UN Security Council, with Russia not opposing it.


          There. You can read for yourself the justification of it. If Russia sought to protect the civilians of Ukraine from supposed Nazi attacks, they should've pursued a similar UN Security Council resolution as a first step.

          Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
          I am not sure about that.. and my country is in NATO..
          If you actually knew more about these things, that might count for something. However, all I'm getting from you sound like talking points from Russian state media, so I take that with a grain of salt.

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          • Originally posted by PerformanceExpert View Post
            I thought you said Russians always speak kindly of others, what exactly happened with that? How can you live with yourself?
            You are mixing people, nations, ideologies into one. It same that you mix your face with shit. I can talk about you as much as I like, I'm talking about you as a person, not as a nation. I'm sure your country is full of good and smart people, but you're not one of them.

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            • Originally posted by xAlt7x View Post
              Michael,
              tuxd3v is on obvious russian fanatic or just a troll. Please stop this russian fascist propaganda (russicism) here.
              I understand the sentiment, but this thread was always about politics. It's not a technical thread that got side-tracked.

              I prefer to address propaganda by showing how full of holes it is. Anyone reading this thread is hopefully smart enough not to take anything at face value, so that makes the actual argumentation worth something. To that end, I appreciate the factual contribution you made.

              In such a thread, it's only when a poster is seriously misbehaving and not trying to discuss the central issues on merit, that I think moderation is called for. Otherwise, it just looks like censoring an opinion you don't agree with. And that might feel good, but it might actually be counterproductive.

              When the dust settles, will this thread have changed a single mind? Probably not. However, I think some readers and participants will come away with a little more knowledge and perspective than they had, before.

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              • Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
                Russia and my country, we share a conservative way of live, maintenance of family values, etc.
                I'm somewhat suspicious of people trumpeting "family values". It always seems like they're trying to distract from other shady behavior or dealings.

                Anyway, there are many countries which meet that definition! I can name several in Asia, not to mention Islamic countries. Do you have similar feelings towards them?

                BTW, lots of people in more "progressive" countries also have those views. It's simply that our government doesn't try to force us to live that way.

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                • Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
                  I just have my opinion formed based on what is happening. I do prefer to find by myself what is going on, than rely in the propaganda from the TV.
                  Any information not gathered with your own eyes and ears is being shaped by someone. It's just a question of whom and what are their motives. Thankfully, there are some committed journalists just trying to get out information in a neutral way, if you're willing to look for it. Better yet, there are some news organizations and journalists still on the ground, there.

                  I don't trust anything posted on social media. At least not if it hasn't be vetted by an expert who can match up the location, people, etc. and is familiar with the tactics of trolls known to be involved in the conflict.

                  Be warned Russia has no independent TV stations, and probably not many independent journalists of any sort will operate under their new media law. So, anything from Russian media is basically state propaganda.

                  Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
                  what I saw was a fight that broke at the premisses of the facility, I saw some bullets flying, and flares launched to improve visibility on the ground.
                  No sheling and no bombardment.
                  However I do saw a the face of a training facility with some smoke?I heard that a fire broke out, and that is possible..
                  Those weren't bullets. Those were tank shells, at least. And they can't have known for sure which buildings were where, making it extremely dangerous to fire towards the complex. I'm sure there's no perfectly safe place to shoot a tank in that complex.

                  Again, flares are not a safe thing to use, for fear of damaging equipment critical to keeping the radioactive cores cool. Failure to keep them cool would result in mass release of radioactive fallout, like Chernobyl.

                  I find it interesting how you're trying to give Russia virtually every benefit of the doubt.
                  Last edited by coder; 06 March 2022, 04:48 PM.

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                  • Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
                    For some people like you, that don't understand, or don't care and simply follow a narrative close to the geopolitical interests of your country..
                    You just said you're partial to Russia! Doesn't matter why you're partial, whether it aligns with your country or not, but that bias is what makes your position untrustworthy.

                    Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
                    I let a video here for people to see and think about, the hypocrisy nonsense that you are using.
                    I don't watch conspiracy tube. If someone needs a video to sell their message, then their points probably don't stand up well without dramatic images and music.

                    It's been proven that youtube and similar video sharing platforms are powerful tools for indoctrinating extremists. If you can't make a cogent point well enough to convince me, then I think you really don't understand it well enough, yourself.

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                    • Originally posted by leipero View Post
                      Oh, I know NATO is "purely defensive", I witnessed it myself when they were attacking me, watching their missiles hit civilian objects, watching their drones and aircrafts falling from the sky. Trust me, very few people on this forum know as good as me how "defensive" NATO is.
                      War sucks. There are always civilian casualties. That's why we're saying it should be an absolute last resort, and limited as much as possible.

                      If you agree with that, then you ought condemn Russian shelling and missile bombardment of Ukrainian cities in the strongest possible terms. Not defending Russia.

                      BTW, if this was really about genocide, why was Putin seemingly obsessed with NATO and demanding Ukraine not join NATO? Why didn't he even try to get a UN Security Council resolution against the supposed genocide, like there was for Libya in 2011?

                      And personally I know Serbian people and one from Kosovo who were there, at the time. They didn't seem to think NATO intervention was wrong.

                      Originally posted by leipero View Post
                      Ofc., those "worthless sand monkeys" know it even better than me, unfortunately, most of them have no voice.
                      You're just highlighting the dehumanizing effect of war. Soldiers are trained not to see their enemies as people. And when you're fighting an insurgency, everyone is a potential enemy. It's very stressful, and insurgencies tend to linger for a long time. I'm not saying it's right that people should have such views, but more that it's yet another reason to avoid wars when possible.

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