OpenBLAS Deciding Whether To Drop Support For Russia's Elbrus CPUs

[coder]

Michael,
tuxd3v is on obvious russian fanatic or just a troll. Please stop this russian fascist propaganda (russicism) here.

I understand the sentiment, but this thread was always about politics. It's not a technical thread that got side-tracked.

I prefer to address propaganda by showing how full of holes it is. Anyone reading this thread is hopefully smart enough not to take anything at face value, so that makes the actual argumentation worth something. To that end, I appreciate the factual contribution you made.

In such a thread, it's only when a poster is seriously misbehaving and not trying to discuss the central issues on merit, that I think moderation is called for. Otherwise, it just looks like censoring an opinion you don't agree with. And that might feel good, but it might actually be counterproductive.

When the dust settles, will this thread have changed a single mind? Probably not. However, I think some readers and participants will come away with a little more knowledge and perspective than they had, before.

[coder]

Russia and my country, we share a conservative way of live, maintenance of family values, etc.

I'm somewhat suspicious of people trumpeting "family values". It always seems like they're trying to distract from other shady behavior or dealings.

Anyway, there are many countries which meet that definition! I can name several in Asia, not to mention Islamic countries. Do you have similar feelings towards them?

BTW, lots of people in more "progressive" countries also have those views. It's simply that our government doesn't try to force us to live that way.

[coder]

I just have my opinion formed based on what is happening. I do prefer to find by myself what is going on, than rely in the propaganda from the TV.

Any information not gathered with your own eyes and ears is being shaped by someone. It's just a question of whom and what are their motives. Thankfully, there are some committed journalists just trying to get out information in a neutral way, if you're willing to look for it. Better yet, there are some news organizations and journalists still on the ground, there.

I don't trust anything posted on social media. At least not if it hasn't be vetted by an expert who can match up the location, people, etc. and is familiar with the tactics of trolls known to be involved in the conflict.

Be warned Russia has no independent TV stations, and probably not many independent journalists of any sort will operate under their new media law. So, anything from Russian media is basically state propaganda.

what I saw was a fight that broke at the premisses of the facility, I saw some bullets flying, and flares launched to improve visibility on the ground.
No sheling and no bombardment.
However I do saw a the face of a training facility with some smoke?I heard that a fire broke out, and that is possible..

Those weren't bullets. Those were tank shells, at least. And they can't have known for sure which buildings were where, making it extremely dangerous to fire towards the complex. I'm sure there's no perfectly safe place to shoot a tank in that complex.

Again, flares are not a safe thing to use, for fear of damaging equipment critical to keeping the radioactive cores cool. Failure to keep them cool would result in mass release of radioactive fallout, like Chernobyl.

I find it interesting how you're trying to give Russia virtually every benefit of the doubt.

[coder]

For some people like you, that don't understand, or don't care and simply follow a narrative close to the geopolitical interests of your country..

You just said you're partial to Russia! Doesn't matter why you're partial, whether it aligns with your country or not, but that bias is what makes your position untrustworthy.

I let a video here for people to see and think about, the hypocrisy nonsense that you are using.

I don't watch conspiracy tube. If someone needs a video to sell their message, then their points probably don't stand up well without dramatic images and music.

It's been proven that youtube and similar video sharing platforms are powerful tools for indoctrinating extremists. If you can't make a cogent point well enough to convince me, then I think you really don't understand it well enough, yourself.

[coder]

Oh, I know NATO is "purely defensive", I witnessed it myself when they were attacking me, watching their missiles hit civilian objects, watching their drones and aircrafts falling from the sky. Trust me, very few people on this forum know as good as me how "defensive" NATO is.

War sucks. There are always civilian casualties. That's why we're saying it should be an absolute last resort, and limited as much as possible.

If you agree with that, then you ought condemn Russian shelling and missile bombardment of Ukrainian cities in the strongest possible terms. Not defending Russia.

BTW, if this was really about genocide, why was Putin seemingly obsessed with NATO and demanding Ukraine not join NATO? Why didn't he even try to get a UN Security Council resolution against the supposed genocide, like there was for Libya in 2011?

And personally I know Serbian people and one from Kosovo who were there, at the time. They didn't seem to think NATO intervention was wrong.

Ofc., those "worthless sand monkeys" know it even better than me, unfortunately, most of them have no voice.

You're just highlighting the dehumanizing effect of war. Soldiers are trained not to see their enemies as people. And when you're fighting an insurgency, everyone is a potential enemy. It's very stressful, and insurgencies tend to linger for a long time. I'm not saying it's right that people should have such views, but more that it's yet another reason to avoid wars when possible.

[coder]

No, I really promised myself not to engage in this topic, I am not the history teacher, and no one pays me to teach people, and it drains my energy in doing so.

You shouldn't state positions you're unwilling or unable to support.

I honestly don't think any of us, in this thread, are paid to be here. IMO, professional trolls are probably better at their jobs and wouldn't waste time in a thread almost nobody is reading, anyhow.

[coder]

I will call it what it is. The reality of the situation is, I'm perfectly fine in living and letting others live, and I personally don't really care what others do in their yard. You have that problem, not me.

These words don't match your actions. You're mostly defending Russia, here. Any condemnations you've made are weak and qualified. And if you really don't care, then why invest so much time to support Russia's agenda?

I want to hear you call this what it is: an invasion, and a sloppy one at that.

[coder]

it doesn't change the fact that one country is 10000 miles away and have literally no relation with people, unlike Ukraine and Russia and history of that whole thing you probably have no clue.

A lot of countries in the region have a history with Ukraine and Russia. The US is concerned, because this is the first step towards World War III.

Also, we live in a global world. Russia doesn't stay in its back yard, it has troops on virtually all continents and ships in all oceans. Its oil & gas end up in most countries, and have significant economic impact via global fuel prices. Not to mention their wheat exports and hackers/ransomeware.

So, yeah, when Russia is trying to change its borders through force of arms, it kinda does concern the whole world.

Another reality of the matter is, that level of knowledge we have on those topics is so unbalanced in my favor, that's quite unfair to even discuss that with you

I've yet to see evidence of that.

when you are not willing to learn, but you rather discussing to "win", I have no interest in participating in such things, it drains energy and is completely fruitless.

So, let's get this straight: you'll only make an effort to properly support your points if we don't challenge you? What the hell kind of debate is that?

I don't want my energy to be wasted there.

Nobody is forcing you to post in this thread. We merely expect your posts to be in good faith.

Now, if you're intentionally making only half-assed posts, that's up to you. Just don't go and blame it on us.

[coder]

When I observe Nazi ideology, I call it with a proper name.

The problem is when name-calling is all you do. The actual behavior of the subject in question is what counts, not the label you attach to it. So to simply sling around the label "Nazi" is superficial. Worse, it actually cheapens the term, especially when it's a poor fit.

You are free to believe any fairytale you wish.

This idea that everything is just a matter of opinion, and all opinions are equally valid again misses the point. There are actual facts, which shouldn't generally be in dispute. Then, there are interpretations of motives and objectives. There, we can disagree, but for the discussion to be worth anything, it should be based on evidence and sound reasoning.

[coder]

Not only that you don't understand curent events, you don't know history either, as I said, not going to waste my time.

This is merely childish and undermines your cause more than helping it.