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  • Originally posted by coder View Post
    What's troubling about this view is that it presumes money buys power. However, from what I've heard about where Putin got his wealth, Russia is the converse. I've heard he orchestrated a shake-down of the oligarchs and insisted they give him a share of their wealth. If accurate, that shows just how little power they have over him.

    There's a very similar story about Saudi Arabia's Mohammed bin Salman (MBS), in which he essentially turned a high-end hotel into a prison for many of the country's elite, until they agreed to his demands.
    Well there is no doubt that today Putin holds all the power. It took him some years but he changed everything in his favour, the constitution, removing independent media, rigging votes and ensuring the only opposition is either dead or in jail. But I imagine a group or a general could turn on Putin if things get worse - and things will get much worse soon with both the economy tanking and the war not going so well, so there will be increasing public opposition to both the war and Putin himself. Soon the streets will be filled with people without jobs, without money wanting an end to this, and he cannot arrest/torture/kill all of them.

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    • Originally posted by dimko View Post

      As semi-russian/semi-ukranian/semi-jew I can tell you things. Yes, Ukrain was full of Nazi sympathizers and henchman,
      so is Russia, my dear.

      Originally posted by dimko View Post
      And a lot of that xenophobic culture is still there. In fact this exact culture has spoiled relationship between Moskali and Khohols after Perestroika.
      yeap, lets forget about half the stuff russians did to ukrainians and blame everything on ukrainians.

      Originally posted by dimko View Post
      And fact that US paid off a lot of people in all kind of places when last political instability happened.
      ah, I see. Ukrainians had to be bought, otherwise they would chose an everlasting brotherhood with Moskals

      Originally posted by dimko View Post
      having blood of Afghanistan,
      unlike USSR's, USA's invasion of Afghanistan was justified.

      Originally posted by dimko View Post
      Yugoslavia,
      HOW DARE THEY TO INVERVENE IN CIVIL WAR!!!!111111

      Originally posted by dimko View Post
      You EU
      what countries have been invaded by the EU army? Be very specific!

      Originally posted by dimko View Post
      Fun fact, Ukraine wanted to join NATO,
      Fun fact: having Russia as a neighbour is a great incentive to join NATO. isn't that weird, that most democratically governed countries that exist from the soviet sphere of influance applied for membership as soon as soviet grip on them weakened?

      Originally posted by dimko View Post
      hostile to Russia since before it even existed, alliance.
      oh, no! enemies, enemies everywhere! poor Russia, lets defend the Motherland! I bet all the enemies envy Russia's riches!

      Originally posted by dimko View Post
      What is your excuse for invading Iraq or Yugoslavia?
      invading Iraq was obviously based on a 'questionable' evidence, no need to sugar coat it. it still doesn't mean other countries should use it as an excuse for their modern behaviour.
      and 'invading' yugoslavia was just.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by atomsymbol View Post

        The argument that "X might be very useful in any military equipment" is pointless/tautological, irrespective of what "X" is, if X itself is unable to discern between right and wrong. A crucial distinction is whether the military equipment is _currently_ being used outside of an ordinary military training operation. Military equipment stored in a military warehouse isn't a direct threat to anybody's life.

        ----

        A chemical element, such as Carbon (C), might be very useful in any military equipment. But, an atom of carbon itself is unable to discern whether it is being used in military or non-military equipment.

        ----

        The source code of the open-source software OpenBLAS is unable to discern _by itself_ whether it is being used in military or non-military equipment.

        ----

        Maybe, someday, smart contracts in crypto-currencies will be able to detect that they are being used in a military conflict and will automatically transfer coins from military accounts to non-military accounts.
        even if I do agree on the core of your arguments.
        Its the classic "kitchen knife"-Argument. But as with the kitchenknife you usually don't hand it over to someone who is starting to act out or even more you try the grab his "tools" even if they are made out of plastic.

        ----
        btw its is astonishing how much people have sympathy for Milošević*


        https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slobod...C5%A1evi%C4%87

        @ the same ones please take shelter somewhere in Kiev now and if you are still alive we might discuss the situation again. Its disqusting how much brainwashed naivity is around. Ever asked how people accept horrifying acts on humans? ....exactly because of this: relativization

        Stop the fucking war none should die - no matter if ukrainian or russian.

        *an anecdote: once I meet a Deacon who was in Den Haag during trial times. He was not naming the guy who he supposed to have spiritually supported - but considering the setting it must have been one of close circle of Milo. But after a few weeks he had to quite there because he was not able to stand the "monster" even if he was starting with a good faith and will to support also alledged evil persons. (second chance, mercy, etc).
        Last edited by CochainComplex; 04 March 2022, 04:58 AM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by leipero View Post

          Well, you can understand, but that doesn't make it right for any of the things you've mentioned. For such actions (other governments don't like what other governments or officials do), that's why diplomacy and international relations exist.

          It's pure Nazi ideology to do such discrimination against someone of any nationality, it changes nothing, look at North Korea if ou need any evidence for my claim = It's blocked "by the world" (not really) for decades. You can twist it and turn it as much as you like, those are basis of Hitlers Nazi ideology.
          I think it is concerning how the Russians and their agents claim everything the West does amounts to nazism. The term is used is to make it appear the current situation is exactly like USSR vs Nazi Germany. It's obviously not. It's actually Putin who is behaving like a nazi - the rest of the world is simply reacting to Putin.

          Now I'm sorry for the many Russian athletes and stars not being able to compete since it's not their fault they could only vote for Putin. I bet many of them do not support Putin's war. However it seems wrong to allow Russians to compete as if nothing happened, just like after the doping scandals. Russia seems to be able to get away with pretty much anything - kill people, poison people, imprison opponents, flatten whole cities, invade countries, dope their athletes and so on. It's time the bully learned they can no longer get away with it.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by PerformanceExpert View Post

            I think it is concerning how the Russians and their agents claim everything the West does amounts to nazism. The term is used is to make it appear the current situation is exactly like USSR vs Nazi Germany. It's obviously not. It's actually Putin who is behaving like a nazi - the rest of the world is simply reacting to Putin.

            Now I'm sorry for the many Russian athletes and stars not being able to compete since it's not their fault they could only vote for Putin. I bet many of them do not support Putin's war. However it seems wrong to allow Russians to compete as if nothing happened, just like after the doping scandals. Russia seems to be able to get away with pretty much anything - kill people, poison people, imprison opponents, flatten whole cities, invade countries, dope their athletes and so on. It's time the bully learned they can no longer get away with it.
            Afain, it seems I was unclear to you, US+EU=/=whole_world(tm)..., over 3/4 of the world doesn't really go against what Russia does, Putin or not, it doesn't matter, every sane Russian president would do the same if in this situation. The comparison to Nazis is actually quite accurate, calling Putin a Nazi is, well..., as for agents, well, I never thought of you as an agent or others with an opinion on the topic but lack of knowledge to have an opinion.

            It doesn't really matter if they support or not, what matters is that sport should not be involved in politics, it clearly is (and I knew that since forever obviously, not a news).

            What is clear to me now is that significant change needs to be done in sports organizations, I personally couldn't care less for sport, but there are people who do care. Doping "scandal" is a story for itself, no need for needlesly widening.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by leipero View Post

              They don't find it scary, and NATO is threatening to the whole world, contrary to what you may think, US/NA+EU/Europe=/=WHOLE WORLD. The evidence of such threat is overwhelming, what is actually dangerous about NATO is the fact that it follows same Nazi ideology people were describing..., and there's no independence in it (US gives orders, rest must follow, or else...), it's so clear that you need to be either willingly blind or trully blind not to see it.

              You seriously think that anyone in Russia (who is set to think about those things there) is thinking about some 3rd party NATO countries? I seriously doubt that is the case, because in reality, only US produces weapons, European countries are insignificant as far as they are concerned, what is the concern, is that any "defensive" weapon can be changed into "offensive" weapon in a matter of hours, carrying nukes.

              Sometimes, it's enough to observe some things and to be unconvinced...
              Really?!? Recently a mad man was gloating on tv about all his nuclear torpedos creating the best tsnuami ever, hyper sonic nuclear missiles and increasing the nuclear readiness. And on tv people are openly talking about "why do we need the world if Russia won't be in it?". Exactly who is threatening the world with nuclear weapons here?

              (and to contrast NATO explicitly downplayed all of the nuclear talk, didn't change defcon, called off routine missile tests, set up a hotline to avoid confrontation etc - anyone claiming NATO is making the threats is clearly a Russian agent)
              Last edited by PerformanceExpert; 04 March 2022, 05:12 AM.

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              • Originally posted by PerformanceExpert View Post

                Really?!? Recently a mad man was gloating on tv about all his nuclear torpedos creating the best tsnuami ever, hyper sonic nuclear missiles and increasing the nuclear readiness. And on tv people are openly talking about "why do we need the world if Russia won't be in it?". Exactly who is threatening the world with nuclear weapons here?
                That video is at least 2-3 years old, it is a show person who speaks about those things, not Russian officials.
                "Reaction --> Action" is not the order, correct order is "Action --> Reaction".
                The quote of the video is not accurate, and it is taken out of context.

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                • Nobody tells you, but politicians and TV presenters in Ukraine have been openly calling for more than 10 years to kill Russians, and infringe on their rights in every possible way. But you will never hear this in Russia or Belarus. There, criminal responsibility for inciting interethnic hatred and is equated to terrorism. In the Russian Federation, they always speak well of the Ukrainians and all world peoples. RF is a multinational country with more than 190 ethnic groups. This is the country that has suffered the most from terrorism in the country itself, and especially in Chechnya and Dagestan. Therefore, with the advent of Putin, criminal responsibility was introduced for inciting ethnic hatred. All conflicts within the country were stopped. For more than 20 years, peace and tranquility have been living in our territory. Sochi Olympics and the World Football Championship showed that in the Russian Federation people treat everyone well, regardless of their religion or country. While other countries are trying to exterminate rare ethnic groups, our country is trying to preserve and unite them. You will never hear in the Russian Federation to humiliate Europeans or Americans, but you will hear how they call for humiliating Russians in EU and USA. Unfortunately, everyone has confused politics and peoples, and more and more calls are being made to expel Russian students and to ban disabled people from performing at the Paralympics. Crazy politicians apparently believe that disabled people are fighting in Ukraine and threaten their safety. It's absurd and the world has gone mad. How everyone quickly forgot that the President of Ukraine - Volodymyr Zelensky at the Security Council of Europe threatened the whole world with nuclear weapons. From this Europe would suffer the most. Ukraine has the technology and resources to create a dirty bomb that is more terrifying than a conventional nuclear bomb and makes territories uninhabitable. Ukraine has been blackmailing the Russian Federation for more than 30 years on every occasion, they have no gas and oil, their economy is in decline and they are bankrupt, but she could start blackmailing Europe in the same way, which she has already begun to do at the Security Council of Europe. The politicians of Ukraine pumped the people of Ukraine for years into conflict with Russia, and at the same time they stole all European money and weapons and sold weapons to the whole world. They called themselves the most powerful army in the world, and everyone was told that they were fighting the Russian Federation, but they were killing their own citizens. But everyone was tired of this, and Belarus and Kazakhstan supported Russia. Ukraine could not raise its army, but stole all these years, and was not ready for the Russian invasion. This is a problem for all our peoples. Also, no one will tell you about the thousands of scammers from Ukraine who deceived our grandmothers, mothers, cancer patients and mothers of children. These people have no honor or conscience. This is very sad. But Europe has already faced these people with an influx of migrants who behave arrogantly and aggressively.

                  It's bad that they try to mix science and politics. Are uneducated idiots who believe that openblas are used to create weapons. Apparently these people never went to university. This is a linear algebra library that uses a lot of scientific calculations. The mathematical school in Russia is one of the strongest. And most importantly, openblas is used by the lib2geom and opencv libraries. Which are used in graphic editors and computer vision. In this case, these mentally ill people should be banned from kitchen knives, because they can kill a person. Therefore, openblas maintainers should apologize to the people of Russia and resign. There is no place for politics and mentally ill maintainers in open source. All goodness and peace!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by leipero View Post
                    That video is at least 2-3 years old, it is a show person who speaks about those things, not Russian officials.
                    "Reaction --> Action" is not the order, correct order is "Action --> Reaction".
                    The quote of the video is not accurate, and it is taken out of context.
                    Nice try, but no. Here is the video with translation and more comment. It explicitly mentions the high nuclear alert which means it can't be an old video unless Putin makes these kinds of nuclear threats regularly. I'm sure that's not what you're trying to tell us, right?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by wangling View Post

                      lol, You never know that Russia is in a sense "asked" to become the enemy of NATO. Russia's three requests to join NATO were rejected. Why? Because without the enemy, the military alliance will have no meaning.

                      And, Why should I be friendly to NATO? I support the EU, the African Union and other alliances aimed at economic development. But as a military alliance, all the meaning of its existence is to seek war. I have always believed that when there is no military alliance in the world, the world will be more peaceful.
                      Russia asking to be part of NATO after NATO was formed was a purely symbolic gesture that would have never been seriously considered. The whole point of NATO existing was a counter to Russian expansion/imperialism (of which Russia has a very long history of doing).

                      And not sure that people realize, but NATO is a purely defensive pact. Its written in its core institution and the fact that NATO hasn't interfered with the war in Ukraine at the moment is clear evidence of that (although I guess if Russia keeps on shelling nuclear power plants then that will quickly change, as would the obvious of invading of other NATO country).

                      Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
                      I find it fascinating how so many Russians (or at least the ones you hear from) seem to find NATO so threatening and scary, and feel like they are being almost attacked by it.

                      Because, as someone who lives in a NATO country, I can tell you that all of us gave absolutely zero thought to Russia. I mean every now and then there'd be some slight annoyance from a ransomware group based in Russia and it would be annoying that Putin seemed to be encouraging them, but that's the extent of it. Russia wouldn't even cross people's minds except about once a year very briefly, probably in sports.

                      Perhaps it's a bit different among the eastern european countries. I could see that they might have old memories of the USSR there which the rest of NATO doesn't, but they have no real influence over anything.

                      Of course that's all changed now. I was pretty convinced NATO was just going to die off in the next 20 years as people stopped caring about it, but this war has certainly reinvigorated it. Europe actually cares now, and this probably ensures it sticks around another 50 years until the current generation starts dying out.
                      Yeah its ironic, currently live in Germany but my entire family is central/east slavic and up until the war in Ukraine comment sentiment is that NATO is weak and wasn't doing anything. Personally I disagree with this because NATO is only weak when there is peace in Europe, because thats the point, its a defensive pact.

                      I mean for christ's sake, you had countries like Germany which didn't even put the bare minimum recommended (by NATO) as budget into military (that only changed right now because of the Russian invasion). Up until Crimea there was even rumors within NATO of disbanding some people had the impression it was pointless.

                      NATO is only as strong as Russia is aggressive/imperialist.
                      Last edited by mdedetrich; 04 March 2022, 06:07 AM.

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