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OpenBLAS 0.3.20 Adds Support For Russia's Elbrus E2000, Arm Neoverse N2/V1 CPUs

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  • caligula
    replied
    Originally posted by In_Mint_Condition View Post
    Clearly you don't understand the word genocide.
    Ping https://twitter.com/eugene_finkel/st...22348899315716

    Leave a comment:


  • coder
    replied
    Apologies for following you off-topic, here.

    Originally posted by mshigorin View Post
    the calls to get back the mortal penalty are heard now though, especially regarding pedophiles (practice shows that those don't get cured by years in prison and rathed get back to their ugly deeds when free again).
    Pedophiles do pose one of the most difficult ethical and legal problems, but that shouldn't justify simplistic solutions.

    We don't kill drug or alcohol addicts, just because their condition is incurable. What needs to happen with pedophiles is perhaps more science into how their condition can be managed (addiction research might hold important clues, here), and more thought into ways their freedom can be restricted to minimize the chance of repeat offenses (after they've completed their original sentence).

    They make an easy target and a useful political tool, but a good engineer (or legal architect) should embrace such a challenge to the system and want to find effective solutions that preserve the ideals of good governance. There's also a practical reason for this. The more potent a political tool it becomes, the more ripe it is for abuse. I think we're clearly seeing that.

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  • coder
    replied
    Originally posted by mshigorin View Post
    Would you stand for that in a court?
    I don't understand your hypothetical. The US legal process has the potential to work well. It has a robust discovery process for bringing to light the relevant facts. Where it tends to suffer is for defendants who can't afford proper legal representation, but that's getting off-topic.

    Originally posted by mshigorin View Post
    Western media
    Please define.

    Originally posted by mshigorin View Post
    You're not ruled by "your government". Or to put it slighly other way around, those who rule you, you do not elect.
    That's ultimately untrue. The government is how laws are made and enforced. It's structurally robust, but not free from influence. Influence is the problem, but it's not one that can't be managed.

    Originally posted by mshigorin View Post
    Except that it's not that easy to crank up more diesel fuel from light oil, and the heavy oil that yields more diesel is produced in Venezuela, Russia, Iran... oops.
    Yes, world energy markets will be in turmoil, for a while. Ultimately, this will help push renewables, though. The biggest problem with renewables is they still don't have enough momentum, so anything which helps build that is going to help.

    Originally posted by mshigorin View Post
    Those Americans that are blind (or cowardly?) enough to try and evade thinking long and hard of what goes on with the country they consider theirs
    That's a bit of a non-answer.

    Though beleaguered, we still have free press and principled journalists. We have Congress performing oversight and the Freedom of Information Act. Those tools, alone, can provide quite a lot transparency into the workings of government, or what conspiracy theorists like to call "the deep state".

    The ultimate defense we have is patriotism and a government where public servants pledge an oath to the Constitution.

    The deeper problem with the "deep state" is the apparent fascination some of the public have with conspiracy theories, rather than what the facts actually support.

    Originally posted by mshigorin View Post
    just what we had in USSR with "the Party".
    Just what you "had"? Do you understand that Putin doesn't accept the break up of the USSR?

    Originally posted by mshigorin View Post
    Biden elections: was it a mass coincidence?
    Trump was one of the most unpopular, corrupt, incompetent, and intemperant presidents in US history. You don't need a conspiracy theory to understand why he lost.

    Originally posted by mshigorin View Post
    shale oil needs a lot of energy put _into_ it, EROEI is pretty grim there.
    Exactly why it's such a bad idea.

    Leave a comment:


  • coder
    replied
    Originally posted by mSparks View Post
    Oh, so you were talking about documents like this (link)

    Destroying the conspiracy theory that the Taliban were pro opium (as a group) or OBL is why Americans and Brits had to die in the (then empty) Afghan poppy fields.
    The Taliban have had a variable position on Opium. While in power, they banned it, but then tapped into it as a revenue source, during the past 2 decades' war.

    Originally posted by mSparks View Post
    And settlements like this (link)

    Making pizzagate look like an amateur attempt to distract from the real evidence that lot really are all pedos.
    The trick many conspiracy theories use is to seize on little bits of evidence and weave them together into a broader narrative. You really can't trust these narratives.

    Originally posted by mSparks View Post
    If that was Russia, Andrew and Epstein would have just been taken into a field and shot in the back of the head decades ago
    I believe Russia does have a judicial system, however imperfect it may be.

    The thing to remember is that a fair judicial process is never 100% accurate. And while we always should strive to make it better, this can't be at the expense of convicting many more innocent defendants or meting out disproportionate punishments.

    Originally posted by mSparks View Post
    US and UK label them VIPs and make you pay for their security.
    Society is never 100% equal or fair, but we can't let perfect be the enemy of good. There are certain high-stature individuals who need additional protection, but if that's what's necessary for them ultimately subject to the same legal process as everyone else, then it's worth doing.

    Originally posted by mSparks View Post
    people who want to inform people whats really going on, like say Assange and Snowden, get treated like Assange and Snowden,
    Whenever someone wants to draw a generalization from such extreme examples, it should arouse suspicion.

    I don't generally support what Assange or Wikileaks did. I think it started out as something well-intentioned and doing some actual good, but went off the rails at some point. I've read a lot about Assange and his role in that, but we needn't get further off-track.

    Snowden is a different case, and someone I regard as a tragic hero. He tried to do the right things, in the best way he could, for the right reasons, and after all other options had been exhausted. He knew the risks, and probably his worst fears were proven true. I think history will look upon him more kindly than those who were embarrassed by his revelations.

    Originally posted by mSparks View Post
    and most everyone else is left guessing, or keeping their head down trying not to draw attention to themselves.
    That's far from true. The system is very leaky. Snowden's case was extreme, precisely because he was revealing some of the most closely-guarded secrets, in the most secretive part of the government.

    Originally posted by mSparks View Post
    I've seen enough evidence that significant effort went into preventing me from seeing to make a firm decision who I think the baddies are.
    If you're in a country with a non-free media, then I can understand your trust issues with journalism.

    I think the ultimate test is to ask yourself whether you believe something because it's convenient, or because that's really how all the most robust facts seem to line up?

    Originally posted by mSparks View Post
    Elbrus is not just any random alternative, its an ethical one - if there is such a thing.
    Finally, back on topic.

    I understand having trust issues with foreign hardware, as well. All I can say about Elrus is that I find it technically interesting for someone to be pushing a modern, VLIW-based ISA into more general computing. Politically, it makes sense for Russia to have its own CPUs. And, unfortunately, politics is the problem. Maybe it didn't have to be that way, but here we are.

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  • mSparks
    replied
    Originally posted by mshigorin View Post
    I still prefer it as a technically sound one.

    The ethical alternative to me is Orthodoxy; look up Seraphim Rose's books, for example.

    PS: it's actually hard to get shot in Russia legally -- unless one is armed and has made it very sure that others will get dead if he isn't; the calls to get back the mortal penalty are heard now though, especially regarding pedophiles (practice shows that those don't get cured by years in prison and rathed get back to their ugly deeds when free again).
    I didnt mean to imply they get shot legally.
    Just that if/when they disappear its not headline news and a national manhunt for those who suicided them.

    e.g. never seen anything like Jimmy Saville in the slavic regions. Quite the opposite, corrupt, perverted criminals actually generally go to prison or disappear -regardless of social status- rather than get raised up as national heroes and role models for the next generation.

    Put that in the context of the "only one true message" in your previous post - and "rotten to the core" suddenly becomes to kind a description of the anglosaxen monarchies masquerading as democracies.
    Last edited by mSparks; 14 March 2022, 11:14 AM.

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  • mshigorin
    replied
    Originally posted by mSparks View Post
    Elbrus is not just any random alternative, its an ethical one - if there is such a thing.
    I still prefer it as a technically sound one.

    The ethical alternative to me is Orthodoxy; look up Seraphim Rose's books, for example.

    PS: it's actually hard to get shot in Russia legally -- unless one is armed and has made it very sure that others will get dead if he isn't; the calls to get back the mortal penalty are heard now though, especially regarding pedophiles (practice shows that those don't get cured by years in prison and rathed get back to their ugly deeds when free again).

    Leave a comment:


  • mshigorin
    replied
    Originally posted by coder View Post
    Don't fall for the conspiracy theories. They might sound convincing, but when you lift the covers, there's nothing underneath.
    Would you stand for that in a court?

    Originally posted by coder View Post
    Contrary to what you might think, western media isn't like what you have in Russia.
    The government can't force our media to say anything. They can censor, but in a very limitied set of ways and circumstances.
    The twist is that Russian media isn't what the Western media tells you what Russian media is; read up on #hutzpa, you might understand "Western" media a bit better.

    You're not ruled by "your government". Or to put it slighly other way around, those who rule you, you do not elect.

    As a friend of mine who returned from Israel put it, "in Israel, the country is ruled by a few dozen families and everyone and his dog knows that; in USA, the situation is the same except that most think there's democracy".

    Originally posted by coder View Post
    The USA is currently the world's biggest energy
    ...consumer; so look at the balance.

    Originally posted by coder View Post
    We export more than we import, so it shouldn't be hard to make up for the few % we were importing from Russia.
    Except that it's not that easy to crank up more diesel fuel from light oil, and the heavy oil that yields more diesel is produced in Venezuela, Russia, Iran... oops.

    Originally posted by coder View Post
    The Deep State is the favorite boogeyman of conspiracy theories.
    Those Americans that are blind (or cowardly?) enough to try and evade thinking long and hard of what goes on with the country they consider theirs are much advised to learn of Trotzkists and their plans towards Russia's role a century ago; my short version is: now it's USA who's destined by the same to serve as a fuel for world revolution".

    Originally posted by coder View Post
    The reality of the "deep state" is much more mundane. You have people working in government with various agendas, but it's not like they're coordinated or obey some dark master.
    A liberal friend of mine who has read "The protocols of the learned elders of Zion" which got leaked more than a century ago (I asked him to _analyze_ it despite the many claims of "being fake") told me thoughtfully upon getting through the text: "I still don't know who wrote this but someone sure executes this".

    A world class demonstration of that "lack of coordination" is the media activity: you do not have opinions anymore, just the channels pushing the only "true" one -- just what we had in USSR with "the Party".

    Or "the democracy step" on Biden elections: was it a mass coincidence?

    I don't need to force you into thinking, but I wonder how people seemingly considering themselves intelligent are so blind...

    PS edit: dropped an extra [/QUOTE].
    PPS: another interesting twist regarding energy balance is the end of "megatons to megawatts"; and shale oil needs a lot of energy put _into_ it, EROEI is pretty grim there.
    Last edited by mshigorin; 14 March 2022, 08:42 AM.

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  • mSparks
    replied
    Originally posted by coder View Post
    What I meant was that the evidence collapses, upon scrutiny.
    Oh, so you were talking about documents like this
    https://www.unodc.org/pdf/publicatio...01-10-16_1.pdf

    Destroying the conspiracy theory that the Taliban were pro opium (as a group) or OBL is why Americans and Brits had to die in the (then empty) Afghan poppy fields.

    And settlements like this
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f...ffre-nt2bt3dqn

    Making pizzagate look like an amateur attempt to distract from the real evidence that lot really are all pedos.

    If that was Russia, Andrew and Epstein would have just been taken into a field and shot in the back of the head decades ago (which is why they hate Putin and all his strong straight white male propaganda)

    US and UK label them VIPs and make you pay for their security.
    Originally posted by coder View Post
    There's been lots written about conspiracy theories and the characteristics and circumstance under which people fall for them.
    IMHO its really easy, people who want to inform people whats really going on, like say Assange and Snowden, get treated like Assange and Snowden, and most everyone else is left guessing, or keeping their head down trying not to draw attention to themselves.

    I've seen enough evidence that significant effort went into preventing me from seeing to make a firm decision who I think the baddies are. Elbrus is not just any random alternative, its an ethical one - if there is such a thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • coder
    replied
    Originally posted by mSparks View Post
    Were you referring to conspiracy theories that have evidence, like Jeffery Epstein, Assange, Snowden, PNAC, the 2001 UN Afghan poppy survey and the Chinese hacking into the 300 US biowarfare labs all over the world and releasing their documents.
    What I meant was that the evidence collapses, upon scrutiny.

    Successful conspiracy theories indeed tend have the appearance of supporting evidence. Actual facts are often used to lend a sense of legitimacy to the key claims. They depend on the populace lacking the time, energy, and resources to find the fatal flaws. So, the average person just says, "okay, here are some things I know to be true, therefore the rest is probably true, as well". Or, when they google some of the other claims, they find some results that seem in line with them, and you really have to take the time to look at the evidence to see where it utterly fails to support the claims. Or, they end up validating bad claims against bad sources - we saw a lot of this, during the pandemic: some random foreign publication that's in no way an authority on the subject matter, meanwhile an utter lack of supporting evidence from any publication better-positioned to hold forth on such matters.

    Also relevant is a common mistake people make, and something that lawyers often exploit in a court of law: to think you can make up in quantity what evidence lacks in quality. Even to the point that juries will sometimes overlook a fatal flaw underpinning the entire case, if you can shovel enough evidence at them that they either don't see it or they somehow misjudge the other evidence to compensate for it.

    There's been lots written about conspiracy theories and the characteristics and circumstance under which people fall for them. A lot of times, it comes down to an underlying grievance or motivating factor someone has for wanting to believe them. Rather than rehashing all of that here, I just hope everyone is aware of these tactics.

    Leave a comment:


  • mSparks
    replied
    Originally posted by coder View Post
    There's nothing underneath.
    You mean like:

    "Russia has gone to war with the ukraine"

    "As evidenced by a 40 mile Russian military convoy parked up and doing nothing for 3 weeks, 4 year old videos and some bad CGI"

    Or

    Were you referring to conspiracy theories that have evidence, like Jeffery Epstein, Assange, Snowden, PNAC, the 2001 UN Afghan poppy survey and the Chinese hacking into the 300 US biowarfare labs all over the world and releasing their documents.
    Last edited by mSparks; 13 March 2022, 03:45 PM.

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