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OpenBLAS 0.3.20 Adds Support For Russia's Elbrus E2000, Arm Neoverse N2/V1 CPUs

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  • #21
    WARNING: a message from Russia with love (and enough letters) follows

    Originally posted by caligula View Post
    So is this Elbrus the arch the Russians will be focusing on
    Guys, as someone who's both using the technology mentioned (writing this on my Elbrus 801-PC workstation) and who's very much into the political aspects mentioned (I used to live in Kiev but not anymore) I'd like to offer some cold hard facts -- as well as some live emotions -- to anyone interested; feel free to email me at [email protected].

    First, let's have a look at the tech. Elbrus is EPIC/VLIW CPU with several features interesting for both number-crunching folks and security folks.

    For example, it's got APB (automatic prefetch buffer) programmable to deliver RAM contents at given patterns into L2 cache predictably, three separate stacks, and ptr128 "secure mode" with tagged memory using custom ECC algo and hardware-enforced array bound checking.

    It's definitely behind the smokin' edge in terms of I/O (the most current e2kv6 got PCIe gen3 which is a major step forward from gen2.0 supported in v5 which is production level by now) and performance with many workloads -- but it's catching up pretty fast and in very modest budget; what we've got now just works for many workloads either (this 801-PC is e2kv4 implementation -- Elbrus-8C designed in 2014 and mass-produced since 2017).

    Another interesting thing is that part of its performance and security relies on compiler rather than microcode; thus building software with updated lcc can boost its performance in two-digit number range, making even 800 MHz Elbrus-4C we ran in 2015 feel more like midrange c2d than the better of pIII, for example.

    Those interested can have a closer look at "Elbrus platform effective programming guide" available in Russian (machine translation should be more or less digestable but more on that below) -- some of the techniques described can be useful on any architecture, and some will help OoORISC (including x86) as well.

    Elbrus systems can run x86 code, including complete OS with drivers, through Lintel emulation layer. There's also a userspace implementation named RTC that can run e.g. wine in an x86 chroot.

    I've heard that Transmeta was founded by a Sun guy who worked with MCST and got excited with the tech; too bad he chose to neglect giving the proper credit at least, thus I don't keep his name in my memory.

    Many of former Elbrus project members were hunted by Intel as well, you basically owe them at least its SIMD.

    And while at that, Phoronix Test Suite 10.8.0 builds just fine on Elbrus. :-) (I didn't even attempt running it as I'm not into benchmarks but at least know that even interpreting the results takes enough competence to do in a meaningful way)

    Some more boring facts in terms of multimedia performance:
    • 4C (2014, 65nm, 700--800 MHz, 4-core, 65W, DDR3) is able to decode FullHD at 480 MHz;
    • 8C (2017, 28nm, 1000--13000 MHz, 8-core, 85W, DDR3) decodes two 4K streams at 1300 MHz;
    • 8CB (2018, 28nm, 1500 MHz, 8-core, 90W, DDR4) decodes that 4K stream with less than two cores;
    • 16C (2021, 16nm, 2000 MHz, 16-core, ~130W, DDR4) doesn't break a sweat doing that with a single core or so.
    Well, and a quad 16C system can handle 16 Tb of RAM in one system image (it's official since recently).
    Originally posted by caligula View Post
    after getting kicked out of SWIFT and all the other related sanctions (for killing innocent people in Ukraine in case somebody doesn't know)?
    In case you don't know, this site is called Phoronix, not Moronix or Nazinix.

    And the intentional (not even blind or uninformed) and racist allegations you chose to relay are total gibberish trying to paint white black and vice versa. The conventional test is s/Russian/Jew/g and looking whether you would pass with at least some colors with a resulting phrase.

    The truth you can verify by getting your butt up from your chair, getting it to Rostov-on-Don or Kharkov and moving to the conflict line is that the former Ukraine -- which I still got passport of -- was taken over by US-inspired neonazi coup, and that the direct consequence of that was the typical war with Russians killing Russians (just like Arabs killing Arabs, Negroes killing Negroes, etc -- there were over hundred wars and military crimes of similar type since WWII that US is directly guilty of).

    Every time the Western media claims "the innocent deaths" being the casus belli -- they only neglect to mention that those actually innocent deaths were planned and agreed upon by US officials and military head, and these are committed by their pet murderers (aye, there's no native term "false flag operation" in Russian, just a translation of the English term; I wonder why).

    Go and ask the people on the ground if you're so bold. I did. (this particular maidan video filmed eight years and three days ago is gone from youtube with both newsanna and mshigorin channels, incidentally; I use to support ANNA-News frontline news agency and have translated many of their footage from Syria in English, can share the archive)

    And in case you think "it's far away and will not touch me": looks like the very same trotzkist/globalist scum that drove these wars "far away" has already started to use US as the "world revolution fuel" just as those tried -- and failed -- with Russia a century ago. That BLM fraud is much resembling the "West Ukrainians are blablabla for independence" (with Biden sitting in president of ukraine's chair shortly thereafter) or "Assad must go" (with jihadi heart-rippers suddenly "waking up" from "freedom fighters") -- it's the pretext, not the cause.

    You're given the privilege of doubt and of staying silent at least. Try not to trade it in for spreading lies -- you will have to answer for those, it's the way our life works, at least from my own experience. Do not moan "why all of this happens to me" if you choose to lie on: it's just your personal share of the larger flock of boomerangs then. You have been warned.

    It's my best advise to you -- take it from a humble Russian Orthodox hacker who's incidentally on Ukrainian nazi's "peacemaker" blacklist. You're not bad; but you have been fooled. Find out whom you can't criticize to see who prefers you that way.

    On SWIFT: your politicians and banksters are more afraid of this "lever" than we are; since we trade the real-world things you can't live (or even move far enough) without, and you try to trade lies wholesale -- one of those is "dollar is still worth anything" (is it why cryptocurrency folks try to put their dollars at least into real hardware?); we can definitely live without those, and so is China.

    And regarding Russian the language: I've heard that some Westerners discover it for themselves as the language of the world where one can be one's self and not pretend to be some "politically correct" unit; where topics can be discussed deeply and honestly; where one is actually more free.

    We know that "kitchen talk", we had enough of it back in the USSR (I was born in 1979 so don't remember a lot of "mature" affairs like having to discuss some topics like politics privately so one doesn't get overheard but still; and things got much worse with your gadgets basically snooping upon you, not just waiting for that "OK Googlg").

    And remember: Russians do not start wars but rather end those.

    2 Alexmitter: you definitely forgot the Brits. :-)

    And there's a nuance: Afghani folks recall Russian soldiers, shuravi, respecting them as real warriors -- they have none for the Western "campers".

    A friend of mine fought there and told me once showing the photos and the great mountains: "look, we've been fired upon from these greens -- but we loved the place nevertheless". I think this is the key: to love or to hate.

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by blacknova View Post

      IMHO we really should stop politics discussion on tech forum. I'm pretty sure Russian people would still stay on Russian point of view, Western people on Western POV and Eastern on their own. But I'd like to avoid nuclear war in Europe which could happen thanks to US meddling and insisting on more and more extensive sanctions.
      First you say that we should avoid discussing politics just to follow up with an extremely politically slanted statement.
      Here's an alternative view: Ukraine is a sovereign nation and Russia has no right to decide either its foreign policy nor its security policy or which alliances it wishes to join, whether it's EU-membership or Nato-membership. The 2010 OSCE Astana declaration, that Russia has signed, has this to say about that:

      "The security of each participating State is inseparably linked to that of all others. Each participating State has an equal right to security. We reaffirm the inherent right of each and every participating State to be free to choose or change its security arrangements, including treaties of alliance, as they evolve,"

      After this crystal clear statement follows the one single statement that Russia has built its whole case on:

      "They will not strengthen their security at the expense of the security of other States"

      Ok, now back to the technical discussions.

      Source:

      https://www.osce.org/cio/74236
      Last edited by tomas; 21 February 2022, 12:28 PM.

      Comment


      • #23
        ...and a few more bits regarding page 2...

        Originally posted by In_Mint_Condition View Post
        As a European, I could correct you
        The instability/blockade world map actually looks like centered on EU -- it's somewhat hard to block 1/7th of the earth... so you have every right for that correction I guess, and as Syrians knew they were fighting for both Syria and Russia back in 2013 (they told it to my ANNA-News friends who filmed in Damascus), we know we're fighting for both Russia and Europe now.

        Originally posted by Etherman View Post
        But does it have integrated FSB?
        Sure, and versions before 16C SoC have external GRU chip disguised as a КПИ-2 south bridge!

        Originally posted by Sin2x View Post
        Russia also has MIPS-based Baikal CPUs
        My understanding is that their initial plan was to do aarch64, then the Brits wagged the contract, then Baikal Electronics contacted Imagination, and later Brits came back.

        We've got both T1 and M based systems handy as well as Loongson and Kunpeng here, btw.

        Originally posted by Linuxxx View Post
        Personally I think Putin is actually worried about the Russian army's potential losses, because Ukraine is really well equipped by now. (US weapons, Turkish drones, German helmets...)
        My guess is that Putin is rather worried with field crematories handed over by Germany: he insists that Russians and Ukrainians are a single nation, looks like he wants no deaths on any side. (I'd order to eliminate the junta if I was him but thanks God I'm just me, the weight of the world is definitely not my class)

        And Ukrainian neonazis worry that the soldiers will defect of fight against them, so they have to rearrange nazi squads preparing them to shoot "their own" soldiers ("Aidar" among those).

        We know how to deal with anything you haven't seen in your worst nightmares, mate. Read up on the history of XXth century.

        Originally posted by caligula View Post
        Genocide is always ok, because the Neanderthals did it too.
        AFAIK the first documented genocide was carried out against the seven peoples of Canaan.

        Originally posted by blacknova View Post
        But I'd like to avoid nuclear war in Europe which could happen thanks to US meddling and insisting on more and more extensive sanctions.
        Those folks seem to have forgotten what is war at home. So Putin told them clearly that the return strike will be delivered upon the decision making centers as well.

        Wonder if there are enough Western politicians who are more mature than a 12 year boy/girl -- at least those without their "ex-" prefix...

        Wish those would actually serve their people and their countries.

        Good luck to all of us.

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by tomas View Post
          Here's an alternative view: Ukraine is a sovereign nation
          It is not.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by mshigorin View Post
            It is not.
            So you are saying there was definately never any nuclear technology in the Ukraine, and I guess you think Chernobal was a hoax right?

            IMHO the main problem for the west in the Ukraine is unlike Poland which saw massive growth post independance, most of the people there would welcome the Russians back Crimea style. Certainly a mess.
            ___

            Its been a good few years since I heard anything about the Elbrus chips, Im actually surprised given how well M1 mac has performed they havent gone done the arm route.


            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by mSparks View Post
              Its been a good few years since I heard anything about the Elbrus chips, Im actually surprised given how well M1 mac has performed they havent gone done the arm route.
              I'd guess that was a bit of political decision to have tech that is not tied to any third-party patents. Especially if they though of selling these chips outside of country or employing them outside of goverment systems.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by mshigorin View Post
                It is not.
                (Anyone that cites Russia Today has already lost the discussion).

                The Budapest Memorandum is still valid and in play, none of the signing parties has withdrawn from it, so your whole point is moot.

                The Budapest memorandum, that Russia has signed,
                acknowledges and guarantees the territorial integrity of Ukraine:

                https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buda...ity_Assurances

                "The memorandum included security assurances against threats or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine...
                ...

                In 2009, Russia and the United States released a joint statement that the memorandum's security assurances would still be respected after the expiration of the START Treaty"

                BTW, anyone that wants to read president Zelenskyy's complete speech he gave in Munich, without going through a Russian propaganda site, can do so here:

                https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news...erenciyi-72997

                Thanks

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by mSparks View Post
                  So you are saying there was definately never any nuclear technology in the Ukraine, and I guess you think Chernobal was a hoax right?
                  I wonder what could make you think I said that. There was some; there still might be some, e.g. Kharkov's Turboatom was building turbines for NPPs.

                  But the nuclear materials and warhead technology was -- and is -- in Russia, not (former) Ukraine; the latter has no reprocessing capabilities while still operating a bunch of Soviet-era reactors, for example.

                  Originally posted by mSparks View Post
                  IMHO the main problem for the west in the Ukraine is unlike Poland which saw massive growth post independance, most of the people there would welcome the Russians back Crimea style. Certainly a mess.
                  For me, the main problem for the West is the bad habit of living off others and not by fair work.

                  Poland's "massive growth" was backed by massive Western investments into a "showcase", they're quarreling with EU over the remnants of sovereignty (vs more donations).

                  The historical culprit wasn't money though, it was Poland bowing before Rome (and falling off from Orthodoxy to Catholicism). This is core in what they tried to do in former Ukraine and Belorussia.

                  Originally posted by blacknova View Post
                  Originally posted by mSparks View Post
                  Its been a good few years since I heard anything about the Elbrus chips, Im actually surprised given how well M1 mac has performed they havent gone done the arm route.
                  I'd guess that was a bit of political decision to have tech that is not tied to any third-party patents.
                  I think your guess is right, but not just patents: it's about being able to develop the architecture independently.

                  Look at Huawei.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by tomas View Post
                    (Anyone that cites Russia Today has already lost the discussion).
                    As I said, this site is not called Moronix. You just cited Russia Today, btw -- which is pretty humorous to me.

                    Originally posted by tomas View Post
                    The Budapest Memorandum is still valid and in play, none of the signing parties has withdrawn from it, so your whole point is moot.
                    It hasn't even been ratified, child. And you're trying to explain things you didn't even study to a reserve officer of radio-chem-bio defense who earned his M.Sc. in Chemistry in Kiev University and helped write Oliynik's bill back in 2002.

                    Originally posted by tomas View Post
                    BTW, anyone that wants to read president Zelenskyy's complete speech he gave in Munich
                    That lame stuff boils down to "gimme money and weapons OR I go nuke".

                    You can oppose the reality as long as it allows you. Do not cry when it stops doing so.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by blacknova View Post

                      I'd guess that was a bit of political decision to have tech that is not tied to any third-party patents. Especially if they though of selling these chips outside of country or employing them outside of goverment systems.
                      Security and sovereignty play a part, but it was mostly driven by Obama imposing sanctions on them for Russia's involvment in stopping the CIA trafficking opium from Afghanistan through Syria and Turkey.

                      Comment

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