AMD Preparing More Linux Improvements Around USB4/Thunderbolt

[phoronix]

Phoronix: AMD Preparing More Linux Improvements Around USB4/Thunderbolt

As part of AMD Rembrandt APUs having USB4 support with that specification based on the Thunderbolt 3 protocol, AMD in recent months has been making a number of Linux driver improvements to enhance the USB4/Thunderbolt support for their platforms...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMD-Linux-Is-Thunderbolt

[anarki2]

They might as well start giving us more mobos with TB4. The only one so far is the Asus B550-CREATOR AFAIK.

[numacross]

They might as well start giving us more mobos with TB4. The only one so far is the Asus B550-CREATOR AFAIK.

Thunderbolt requires controllers and validation from Intel, while USB4 will be more open.
That motherboard looks nice until you look into the manual and see the caveats surrounding PCIe But then again it's based on a mainstream platform.

[Quackdoc]

USB4 I wish was faster q.q need a new mobo (2 ram slots are dead) and decided to wait for USB4 to come along.

[mdedetrich]

Thunderbolt requires controllers and validation from Intel, while USB4 will be more open.
That motherboard looks nice until you look into the manual and see the caveats surrounding PCIe But then again it's based on a mainstream platform.

Thunderbolt is a subset of USB4 that uses the USB-C connector. For example USB4 only supports one external 4k display, thunderbolt can support 2

If AMD is claiming to support Thunderbolt (which is basically a version of USB with USB-C that has very strict/high standards) then they do need to get validation.

I am not sure if you need controllers from Intel, I suspect its just easier if you do have an intel controller because then you don't need to build it yourself. There were some desktop thunderbolt adapters for motherboards from ASUS/Gigabyte which iirc were not made by Intel.

This is good news though, means we will finally get USB4 AMD laptops

[hubick]

Greetings from my RHEL 8.5 system, booted off a LaCie Rugged SSD Pro 2TB external Thunderbolt drive, plugged into my Threadripper 3960X system on a Gigabyte TRX40 Designare motherboard with bundled GC-Titan Ridge add-in Thunderbolt card.

[finite9]

They might as well start giving us more mobos with TB4. The only one so far is the Asus B550-CREATOR AFAIK.

ASUS ProArt X570-CREATOR WIFI is even nicer. 2 * TB4 USB type-C ports plus USB 3.2 Gen 2 ports and 10gbps + 2.5 gbps Ethernet.

[numacross]

Thunderbolt is a subset of USB4 that uses the USB-C connector. For example USB4 only supports one external 4k display, thunderbolt can support 2

USB4 is a subset of Thunderbolt then, not the other way around

What is the source for your claim about only one display being supported? The documentation on the USB Forum claims that DP MST is supported in USB4. What is more even DP2.0 can be supported via USB4.

If AMD is claiming to support Thunderbolt (which is basically a version of USB with USB-C that has very strict/high standards) then they do need to get validation.

AMD isn't claiming that. It's the motherboard vendors who implement TB that are.
Calling TB "a version of USB" is a bit disingenuous since TB allows raw PCIe/DP tunneling (among other things) with daisy-chaining, and USB doesn't work like that. TB1/2 didn't even support carrying USB. TB3/4 uses USB-C, but that doesn't mean it is derived from USB - it does carry USB for compatibility.

I am not sure if you need controllers from Intel, I suspect its just easier if you do have an intel controller because then you don't need to build it yourself. There were some desktop thunderbolt adapters for motherboards from ASUS/Gigabyte which iirc were not made by Intel.

This is good news though, means we will finally get USB4 AMD laptops

Those TB add-in cards (and TB-enabled motherboards) are all using Intel chips. As far as I know there aren't any other vendors for TB controllers, but with USB4 we'll get them from the usual suspects like ASMedia.

[mdedetrich]

USB4 is a subset of Thunderbolt then, not the other way around

Excuse my brain fart

What is the source for your claim about only one display being supported? The documentation on the USB Forum claims that DP MST is supported in USB4. What is more even DP2.0 can be supported via USB4.

Yes, emphasis on the can. USB4 can support all of the things that Thunderbolt 4 can, the difference is that if you claim your port is Thunderbolt4 then it must support certain specifications

AMD isn't claiming that. It's the motherboard vendors who implement TB that are.
Calling TB "a version of USB" is a bit disingenuous since TB allows raw PCIe/DP tunneling (among other things) with daisy-chaining, and USB doesn't work like that. TB1/2 didn't even support carrying USB. TB3/4 uses USB-C, but that doesn't mean it is derived from USB - it does carry USB for compatibility.



Those TB add-in cards (and TB-enabled motherboards) are all using Intel chips. As far as I know there aren't any other vendors for TB controllers, but with USB4 we'll get them from the usual suspects like ASMedia.

You could call it technically disingenuous but practically in reality thats how it works (minus the daisy chaining bit).

[numacross]

Yes, emphasis on the can. USB4 can support all of the things that Thunderbolt 4 can, the difference is that if you claim your port is Thunderbolt4 then it must support certain specifications

Oh for sure, but that's a tradeoff requiring having Intel validate and certify every design.

You could call it technically disingenuous but practically in reality thats how it works (minus the daisy chaining bit).

USB provides a layer of separation because it has defined protocols, while TB allows direct access to PCIe/DP. Granted it has to be authorized, which is something that Linux is struggling with - Windows has a GUI for it from the drivers, and is subject to IOMMU, but still is a completely different way of doing things.
When you connect a USB device to a TB3/4 USB-C you are not actually talking to the TB controller - it gets routed to a proper USB controller.