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AMD Ryzen 6000 Series Mobile CPUs Feature Microsoft's Pluton Security

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  • Eirikr1848
    replied
    Somehow messaged on this old thread when replying to another and can’t seem to edit the message? Sorry about that!

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  • Eirikr1848
    replied
    Just wish Centaur’s Via-based CPUs got some love for the desktop instead of their one server platform offering.

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  • halo9en
    replied
    "WiFi in first chips" ...?

    1.jpg

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  • Hans Bull
    replied
    BreezeDM, two years of scandemic have made people accept virtually everything.

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  • BreezeDM
    replied
    Originally posted by Avamander View Post
    In the end all I'm saying that it's really surprising to me that people here couldn't see the writing on the wall much earlier and act surprised, especially considering what happened with SafetyNet and similar.
    No one here is surprised about Pluton. There have been dozens of threads with dozens of pages over several years shitting on PSP or IME and how it will eventually lead us to this point. Honestly, how this thread barely has any replies is more surprising to me. Your "lets trust Microsoft with the keys to everything, its inevitable" attitude is most surprising thing. I had to double check I was on Phoronix.

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  • Avamander
    replied
    Originally posted by BreezeDM View Post
    Most of us rational people in the developed world believe in the concept of quality. It matters who you buy your meat from, which car you buy, which doctor you chose, etc. I store important documents in a safety deposit box from a reputable bank and don't give them to a homeless man on the street corner for safe keeping.
    Quality backdoors sure are better.

    Originally posted by BreezeDM View Post
    Your absolutism is beyond ridiculous. Since we accepted PSP/IME we should accept something even worse? Sounds like you are willing to accept any invasive tech because we accepted some in the past.
    I haven't said you have to welcome it in open arms or even like it, but I doubt there's much you can do against it. PSP and IME both still exist.

    In the end all I'm saying that it's really surprising to me that people here couldn't see the writing on the wall much earlier and act surprised, especially considering what happened with SafetyNet and similar.

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  • BreezeDM
    replied
    Originally posted by Avamander View Post
    Logical progression of Digital Restrictions Management and again seems like past restrictions have flown past you.

    So now you're trusting AMD or Intel that Microsoft's component can be disabled. There's no practical difference.
    There is a third party involved. Huge difference. The third party is an untrusted and incompetent company with a history of security failures that I would never buy a product from. I really shouldn't need to explain why Microsoft has a bad reputation to anyone in this forum. In addition if both companies use the same product, what incentive do they have to make sure it works as intended? If it doesn't work as intended, all companies would be equally affected.

    Originally posted by Avamander View Post
    There's no practical difference. ... Seems irrelevant to who has made it.
    Most of us rational people in the developed world believe in the concept of quality. It matters who you buy your meat from, which car you buy, which doctor you chose, etc. I store important documents in a safety deposit box from a reputable bank and don't give them to a homeless man on the street corner for safe keeping.

    Originally posted by Avamander View Post
    Or any other equivalent TPM, and there are bypasses to the requirement.
    For now. It is just the first step. Do you not know the history of Microsoft?

    Originally posted by Avamander View Post
    No, they absolutely don't, PSP and IME are higher-privilege.
    I can effectively disable PSP and IME and there are no requirements to use it.

    Originally posted by Avamander View Post
    I don't understand why you're framing existing invasive tech any better than Pluton, there's a subtle hint of copium.
    Your absolutism is beyond ridiculous. Since we accepted PSP/IME we should accept something even worse? Sounds like you are willing to accept any invasive tech because we accepted some in the past. Why are you here? Go use Windows and let them install rootkits then.



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  • Avamander
    replied
    Originally posted by BreezeDM View Post
    I am trusting AMD or Intel that they are disabled.
    With Pluton, my trust needs to be with Microsoft.
    So now you're trusting AMD or Intel that Microsoft's component can be disabled. There's no practical difference.

    Originally posted by BreezeDM View Post
    PSP and IME are not required by any software outside of the management software needed to use them. I don't need them for games, online streaming, operating systems, or other software. Once most CPUs have Pluton, it will start to be required in more places like games, streaming services, and other software. Since Intel, Qualcomm, and AMD are all going to use Pluton
    But you've skipped past SGX and ARM TrustZone alongside SafetyNet. The DRM you're describing is **already here**. There are phones turned obsolete because their attestation keys get revoked, or they don't meet enhanced requirements. I find it an inevitable that something like that will be deployed and in the future, required on desktop PCs as well. Seems irrelevant to who has made it. Logical progression of Digital Restrictions Management and again seems like past restrictions have flown past you.

    Originally posted by BreezeDM View Post
    Since Pluton emulates the TPM, it is required to use Windows 11.
    Or any other equivalent TPM, and there are bypasses to the requirement.

    Originally posted by BreezeDM View Post
    The number of shitty things that can happen from this far eclipse PSP or IME which is having a disabled/unused portion of your CPU that has proprietary firmware on it.
    No, they absolutely don't, PSP and IME are higher-privilege.

    I don't understand why you're framing existing invasive tech any better than Pluton, there's a subtle hint of copium.

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  • BreezeDM
    replied
    Originally posted by Avamander View Post
    Ignoring the few quite unhinged comments in this thread and looking at the general tonality - why is the reaction to Pluton so much more negative than it has been to Intel ME, AMD PSP and Intel SGX so far? It's very much seems like what we've had for years, just under the same label and equally as unfree.

    Seems to me quite a few are late to the party, the metaphorical cake has been eaten.
    I can turn off or partially disable PSP and IME. I am trusting AMD or Intel that they are disabled. I am also trusting they aren't adding something else nefarious without telling us to the CPU so this level of trust is acceptable to me. If either company betrayed this trust, I could go to the other one. With Pluton, my trust needs to be with Microsoft. Microsoft is an extremely incompetent company that does nothing well. If you removed all Microsoft products from the world today, the world would be a better place. Microsoft is also a company known for its unethical and evil business practices. There are two security risks here: incompetence and malevolence.

    PSP and IME are not required by any software outside of the management software needed to use them. I don't need them for games, online streaming, operating systems, or other software. Since Pluton emulates the TPM, it is required to use Windows 11. I most likely will not be able to disable it. This is just the start. Once most CPUs have Pluton, it will start to be required in more places like games, streaming services, and other software. Since Intel, Qualcomm, and AMD are all going to use Pluton, it will be easier to force this requirement. The processor companies like this idea too since it forces you to buy a Pluton processor when it happens. Then Pluton 2.0 will come out and they'll be forced to upgrade again. The number of shitty things that can happen from this far eclipse PSP or IME which is having a disabled/unused portion of your CPU that has proprietary firmware on it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lbibass
    replied
    Originally posted by mSparks View Post

    They dont need it tbh. Just bought a 2020 m1 macbook air for when Im OOO. completely demolishes the other halves top of the line $3000 2021 windows laptop in every imaginable way and was more than half the price.

    Linux desktop, mac laptop. very happy.
    I'm in a similar boat. M1 Max 16" really doesn't have that many competitors when it comes to performance and battery life. I mean, yeah. You'll get Windows laptops which can compete in performance, but lugging around a 300W power brick and a 6-7lb monster that has to max out the fans to do anything just doesn't interest me. Plus: macOS is similar enough to linux in the bits that matter, which is nice.

    Leave a comment:

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