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Apple Announces The M1 Pro / M1 Max, Asahi Linux Starts Eyeing Their Bring-Up

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  • coder
    replied
    Originally posted by Slartifartblast View Post
    Apple, watch and learn or we'll legislate......

    https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/14/...des-expansions
    Modularity adds cost, weight, and bulk, as well as potentially fragility and flimsiness. I wish it weren't so, but you'll never win over people who prize thin & light or low-cost above all else.

    Leave a comment:


  • coder
    replied
    Originally posted by sdack View Post
    Do not mind coder's comments. He is funny like baby Stewie from Family Guy. Gets excited about anything that is new, runs off on a tangent whenever possible, and otherwise throws a tantrum when the rest of the world does not quite share his view. Just let him be happy.
    Insults are the sincerest form of concession. I was almost impressed you'd gone so long without lashing out at me.

    Leave a comment:


  • coder
    replied
    Originally posted by sedsearch View Post
    Most advanced - that's blind praise.
    No, and that's blind criticism. You have no idea on what information I'm basing that statement.

    Originally posted by sedsearch View Post
    I think even the high end processors that come out of Qualcomm
    FWIW, Qualcomm hasn't designed their own mobile cores since the Snapdragon 820.

    Originally posted by sedsearch View Post
    Icost less than $150 for OEMs. Most regular chips are like $50, since Chinese companies make most mid-range phones in $200-300 range.
    ARM makes different cores for different markets. Qualcomm, Mediatek, HiSilicon, and others put different core configurations in different SoC models, to target different markets.

    Originally posted by sedsearch View Post
    It is not that these companies are not capable
    We have yet to see evidence that anyone is capable of catching Apple.

    Originally posted by sedsearch View Post
    when their bread and butter is regular phones, there's no point building $1000 chips that beat desktop processors.
    ARM-based laptops are also a thing.

    Originally posted by sedsearch View Post
    Windows is not very eager to jump into ARM since x86 is a huge market,
    Full-fat Windows on ARM is also a thing. Microsoft has even been shipping some ARM-based Surface tablets, for quite a while. They even switched to ARM, for newer Hololens.

    Originally posted by sedsearch View Post
    Android is unwilling to go onto laptops.
    Seriously? Have you not heard of Chromebooks??

    Originally posted by sedsearch View Post
    The technology is not the most advanced - except for buying access to latest semiconductor nodes.
    You're quite simply wrong about this. I'd ask on what you're basing that statement, but I'm sure it's little more than a superiority complex you hold over Apple and its users.

    Originally posted by sedsearch View Post
    Other ARM manufacturers are perfectly capable of pulling this off
    Again, we've seen no evidence of that.

    Originally posted by sedsearch View Post
    Don't high end camera makers like Red/Arri already have ARM based chips that can do 8k 120fps?
    What does that have to do with anything? The video performance of these SoCs is not dictated by the performance of their CPU cores. They have purpose-built video blocks for that, primarily for the sake of power-efficiency, but also performance.

    Leave a comment:


  • coder
    replied
    Originally posted by sedsearch View Post
    As far as NVME failing, the RAM can fail as well and it cannot be replaced.
    True, however the failure mode of SSDs is often that the entire drive bricks. In the case of RAM, it has a lower failure rate and failures are often limited to specific address ranges, which can be taken out of use by the kernel. Also, they could dramatically improve the reliability and lifespan of their RAM by using ECC.

    Originally posted by sedsearch View Post
    I really appreciate having modular parts, with different manufacturers, and individual warranty, that come blank as slate
    As do I.

    Originally posted by sedsearch View Post
    Traditional desktop computing is not going anywhere.
    Not sure what this has to do with the earlier points. Yes, desktop PCs will be around for quite a while, but it's still an open question exactly what form they'll take. AMD is said to discontinue making desktop CPUs that lack an integrated GPUs. So, it'll be APUs only, from Ryzen 6000, onward. With this move, they'll join the trend Intel started more than 10 years ago.

    It's also quite conceivable that AMD and Intel will embrace in-package DRAM. I actually expected it'd have already happened, by now. At least, for high-end mobile. However, I very much expected Apple to be one of the first, and it appears I was right about that!

    Leave a comment:


  • coder
    replied
    Originally posted by lucrus View Post
    Sure, you can run the same code, but usually you have a Ryzen 7 5800X based gaming desktop and a M1 based MacBook Pro. You won't take your gaming desktop on the go and you won't run it on a battery cell pack. You won't turn it into a energy efficient server and the same holds true for your MacBook Pro, though for different reasons.
    I don't play games. If I had a 5800X and a Mac Book Pro, I would run the same software on them: development tools, web browsers, and possibly Linux. Except, if I would be someone who buys a Mac Book Pro, it wouldn't be to run Linux on it. Anyway, the rest of the stuff would be basically the same.

    However, I find it weird that you seize on desktop Ryzen CPUs, as if AMD doesn't have APUs in the same classes of machines that M1 Pro/Max are for.

    Originally posted by lucrus View Post
    the same progression can be observed in a more useful way by comparing the M1 to some AMD/Intel/whatever MOBILE counterpart.
    This is apropos of what, exactly?

    Anyway, the cores in their desktop & laptop CPUs are the same, as is most of the stuff around them (caches, memory controllers, etc.). Aside from power budgets, there's not much differences between the laptop APUs and desktop CPUs.

    Leave a comment:


  • ermo
    replied
    Originally posted by coder View Post
    So long ago (January 2009) that it's merely a historical footnote. The part they sold wasn't their core GPU team, but rather the Bitboys, Oy acquisition they made in2006.

    Source?

    I never heard about Qualcomm licensing anything, and their Adreno GPUs remain quite competitive.
    Qualcomm apparently licensed IP before they outright bought Imageon from ATI/AMD AIUI. But yes, it's a long time ago now, so that's a fair comment.

    Originally posted by coder View Post
    MediaTek is in bed with Nvidia, recently announcing they'd be releasing SoCs containing Nvidia GPU IP. Even promising PC-level gaming capabilities, in future iterations. It's be a major shift in direction for them to jump ship and move to AMD.

    I've not heard of anyone in the mobile space licensing AMD GPU IP other than Samsung, which was initially described as more of a partnership (i.e. Samsung making its own customizations to RDNA, rather than taking AMD's IP as-is or paying AMD to do it like Sony and MS do).
    MediaTek AMD rumour via FudZilla (from 2015, so a few years ago now and not an official press release)

    In summary, odds are your interpretation is the correct one and since I specifically said "confirmed", I have to retract that statement since it was apparently only a rumour going around.

    Originally posted by coder View Post
    Not once ARM hits a tipping-point. Intel will be ready with their own ARM CPUs, but we won't hear a peep about it, before then. The last thing they want to do is create any doubt among their existing customers around their long-term commitment to x86-64. If you knew that even the mighty Intel no longer believed in the future of x86, maybe you'd switch to an existing ARM solution, rather than wait until Intel gets into the game.
    Again, fair.

    Leave a comment:


  • Slartifartblast
    replied
    Originally posted by sdack View Post
    I know and it is a bit sad, but Apple, being fully committed to this pragmatism, does hit the sweet spot for younger generations. They do not need hardware that is future-proof with lots of general-purpose cores, but they need hardware that runs the current technologies well so they can make their first experiences with it. This is where Apple's design matters. The younger generations have less use for tomorrow's technologies when they first need to learn about today's technologies in general. And when their laptops then become outdated in just a couple of years, do they simply get a new laptop for Christmas.

    I personally would rather have a 48- or 64-core ARM machine than an M1, because I already know how fast technologies change and prefer a machine that is still of some use in 5 to 8 years for me. Only people like me do not matter much, because I do not buy a new machine every year and do not contribute much to the companies' turn-over.
    Apple, watch and learn or we'll legislate......

    Leave a comment:


  • sdack
    replied
    Originally posted by Slartifartblast View Post
    AFX64 is built on 7nm, Apple have already bought up most 3nm production at TSMC.

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/20...ac-iphone-ipad
    I know and it is a bit sad, but Apple, being fully committed to this pragmatism, does hit the sweet spot for younger generations. They do not need hardware that is future-proof with lots of general-purpose cores, but they need hardware that runs the current technologies well so they can make their first experiences with it. This is where Apple's design matters. The younger generations have less use for tomorrow's technologies when they first need to learn about today's technologies in general. And when their laptops then become outdated in just a couple of years, do they simply get a new laptop for Christmas.

    I personally would rather have a 48- or 64-core ARM machine than an M1, because I already know how fast technologies change and prefer a machine that is still of some use in 5 to 8 years for me. Only people like me do not matter much, because I do not buy a new machine every year and do not contribute much to the companies' turn-over.

    Leave a comment:


  • sdack
    replied
    Originally posted by sedsearch View Post
    Most advanced - that's blind praise. ...
    Do not mind coder's comments. He is funny like baby Stewie from Family Guy. Gets excited about anything that is new, runs off on a tangent whenever possible, and otherwise throws a tantrum when the rest of the world does not quite share his view. Just let him be happy.

    Last edited by sdack; 20 October 2021, 05:39 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • sedsearch
    replied
    Originally posted by coder View Post
    Are you aware they designed these cores from scratch? Their CPU cores are far-and-away the most advanced in the world, .....

    What's impressive about it are, as with any Apple Soc, the CPU cores, themselves. What's more is to have this much compute power in a thin-and-light laptop form factor. It will enable laptops in a class entirely of their own.
    Most advanced - that's blind praise. Also, design is determined by price. I think even the high end processors that come out of Qualcomm cost less than $150 for OEMs. Most regular chips are like $50, since Chinese companies make most mid-range phones in $200-300 range. It is not that these companies are not capable - but when their bread and butter is regular phones, there's no point building $1000 chips that beat desktop processors.

    Apple has its own software ecosystem. Windows is not very eager to jump into ARM since x86 is a huge market, and Android is unwilling to go onto laptops. Apple found itself in a unique advantage where it had ecosystem, ton of money to buy companies or loop in staff from competitors, and dedicated cult following. The technology is not the most advanced - except for buying access to latest semiconductor nodes.

    Other ARM manufacturers are perfectly capable of pulling this off - but they don't have a software ecosystem to jump into. Don't high end camera makers like Red/Arri already have ARM based chips that can do 8k 120fps? Somebody is making those chips and it is not Apple.

    Leave a comment:

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