Originally posted by ms178
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New Spectre Variants Discovered By Exploiting Micro-op Caches
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Originally posted by ms178 View Post
Well, what does it bring you if you barricade the door but leave all of the windows open? But you are right, I am not running a server farm, it is just my private gaming rig. I also re-build my Kernel turning off the "avoid indirect branches" option. I know that it is dangerous, but I don't want to pay any performance penalties and hope that the industry gets their act together and designs more secure products without sacrificing performance.
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Originally posted by birdie View Post
OoOE goes hand in hand with Spectre. Period. If you have brilliant ideas how to make OoOE work regardless - all CPU designers are listening to you carefully. In fact Intel, AMD, ARM and Apple will all pay you a billion of dollars to solve the issue.
Last edited by ms178; 01 May 2021, 10:51 AM.
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Originally posted by ruff View PostThat you don't get occasional strangers via the open door, only sneaky burglars through the window. So you can prepare and wait them with a shotgun.
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One thing to monitor closely is how hard it is to exploit the vulnerability. Because between theory and reality there might be a huge gap. Meltdown was extremely dangerous since it could enable attackers to easily steal tons of data as an astounding rate. Now for other attacks we've never seen such phenomenon, except maybe in datacenters with multiple virtual machines / containers on the same physical host. And even though the attacker must have accurate knowledge of the underlying hardware, which is often quite tough.
Now if we need to pay a 50% penalty to shield us again a threat that is theoretical except in very few cases I won't pay for it.
In the meantime on my old rig (the one that I only use occasionnally), an AMD Phenom x4 9850, the vulnerability does not exist since it does not feature a µOp cache. ;-)Last edited by gojul; 01 May 2021, 11:27 AM.
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Originally posted by ms178 View Post
I am not a CPU designer, but isn't it a problem of speculative execution being not that speculative after all and not OoOE in general? At least to me as a layman the deterministic behavior of these speculations seems to be the root cause. Hence some randomization or encryption/decryption might be of help here [a dedicated on-chip-FPGA for that task might also help with performance?!].
Please read on Spectre and OoOE, and you won't look stupid You can disable OoOE entirely however that will make CPUs up to a dozen times slower than they are now.
https://milestone-of-se.nesuke.com/e...tdown-spectre/
An in-depth look at these dangerous exploitations of microprocessor vulnerabilities and why there might be more of them out there
And even the original paper: https://spectreattack.com/spectre.pdfLast edited by birdie; 01 May 2021, 11:31 AM.
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Feels like this (class of vulnerabilities) will potentially make the cloud less desirable (vs. on-premises computing) as if you don't have bad actors accessing your hardware directly, it doesn't matter if the CPU can potentially leak secrets?
The only reasonably safe option left seems to be non-SMT, non OoOE for cloud providers, which will likely make the cloud less suitable to certain workloads going forward?
We certainly get to live in interesting times...Last edited by ermo; 01 May 2021, 11:36 AM.
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