Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

NVIDIA Announces Grace CPU For ARM-Based AI/HPC Processor

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • oiaohm
    replied
    Originally posted by coder View Post
    Don't you mean Taiwanese? It makes a difference! I assume they have offices & manufacturing in the mainland, but their HQ is in Hsinchu, Taiwan.
    Until China invades Taiwan, they should be fine.
    coder if the USA government starts looking at ownership of Mediatek closely they will find over 51% china. As long as the USA keeps on believing HQ in Taiwan makes them Taiwan everything will be good.

    Leave a comment:


  • coder
    replied
    Originally posted by Jumbotron View Post
    And I love how you equate performance with something that has antiquated "PCIe slots and stuff". How 20th Century. And old school. And irrelevant.
    Trying to defend with rhetoric what you can't refute with facts is not actually winning.

    The performance advantage of dGPUs is irrefutable. PCIe slots are good for other things, besides. True, they're not as essential as they once were, and eGPUs can do alright, but ARM will never overtake the PC market until there are comparably-priced, standard form-factor ARM boards with PCIe 4 slots that can run dGPUs and NVMe SSDs. Maybe you don't care about that stuff, but a lot of people do.

    Originally posted by Jumbotron View Post
    The best version (confirmed by game reviews) of Cyberpunk 2077 is from Google's Stadia steamed to a Chromebook. And not a PCIe slot or "stuff" in sight.
    This is ironic, because essentially what you're saying is that GPU power is irrelevant. So, then what's even the point of spamming about Nvidia GPUs in Mediatek chips, if you're just going to render it in the cloud? And the CPU cores in today's chromebooks are either a couple generations old ARM cores or Intel Gemini Lake. So, you're also saying that CPU performance is irrelevant.

    Well, I'm no expert on game streaming, but I know enough to say that it works only in certain geographic areas. And lots of games aren't available on game streaming platforms. So, that's two reasons people might care. And to the extent that they can just use game streaming, then basically all the rest of your points are irrelevant.

    Leave a comment:


  • coder
    replied
    Originally posted by Jumbotron View Post
    Why ?
    If you're trying to make projections about the competitive landscape, they cannot be ignored.

    Leave a comment:


  • coder
    replied
    Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
    Remember Mediatek is china based
    Don't you mean Taiwanese? It makes a difference! I assume they have offices & manufacturing in the mainland, but their HQ is in Hsinchu, Taiwan.

    Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
    I would not say Nvidia deal with Mediatek is perfectly long term stable if the USA trade dispute keeps on getting worse.
    Until China invades Taiwan, they should be fine.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jumbotron
    replied
    Originally posted by coder View Post
    That's great and all, but really not so different than what they did with their Tegra SoC's that made it into some phones, tablets, a Google Pixel notebook, and finally Nintendo Switch. At the end of the day, they're still going to be APUs, with APU-level graphics horsepower.

    What I think most of us really want to see is ARM PCs with like PCIe slots and stuff. As far as I'm aware, the closest to that is the Huawei Kunpeng-powered machine launched almost a year ago.
    Well...I would hope that you know that the old Nvidia Shield is still the most performant Android TV streamer after all these years. Even with an old ARM Tegra SoC with a Maxwell based GPU.

    And I love how you equate performance with something that has antiquated "PCIe slots and stuff". How 20th Century. And old school. And irrelevant.

    The best version (confirmed by game reviews) of Cyberpunk 2077 is from Google's Stadia steamed to a Chromebook. And not a PCIe slot or "stuff" in sight.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jumbotron
    replied
    Originally posted by coder View Post
    Isn't it interesting how you left out every Chinese SoC and GPU maker?
    Why ?

    Leave a comment:


  • coder
    replied
    Originally posted by Jumbotron View Post
    Apple... Qualcomm... Samsung... Google... Broadcom...

    So that leaves Nvidia with little choice but to go with Mediatek.
    Isn't it interesting how you left out every Chinese SoC and GPU maker?

    Leave a comment:


  • coder
    replied
    Originally posted by Jumbotron View Post
    More details from Nvidia's GTC event on it's partnership with Mediatek. Nividia straight up says that they are going to expand the ARM eco-system to PC desktops as well as laptops.

    The Age of ARM is truly and verifiably here.

    " About halfway through his presentation, Huang presented a slide entitled "Expanding Arm Ecosystem Beyond Mobile," which mentioned MediaTek's collaboration. According to NVIDIA, it will be licensing its GeForce RTX 30 Ampere IP for use in MediaTek MT819x SoCs. "
    That's great and all, but really not so different than what they did with their Tegra SoC's that made it into some phones, tablets, a Google Pixel notebook, and finally Nintendo Switch. At the end of the day, they're still going to be APUs, with APU-level graphics horsepower.

    What I think most of us really want to see is ARM PCs with like PCIe slots and stuff. As far as I'm aware, the closest to that is the Huawei Kunpeng-powered machine launched almost a year ago.

    Leave a comment:


  • oiaohm
    replied
    Originally posted by Jumbotron View Post
    More details from Nvidia's GTC event on it's partnership with Mediatek. Nividia straight up says that they are going to expand the ARM eco-system to PC desktops as well as laptops.
    There is a problem here as I said don't ignore risc-v.
    https://riscv.org/member/mediatek/
    Mediatek is working on risc-v chips as well as arm ones. Remember Mediatek is china based and could be next of the USA supply blacklist like
    https://www.techpowerup.com/255835/a...hip-ip-licence
    what happemed to huawei here

    I would not say Nvidia deal with Mediatek is perfectly long term stable if the USA trade dispute keeps on getting worse. Of course Mediatek is putting a plans in place that they can go risc-v if they have to. Mediatek is not Nvidia friend to keep on expanding the ARM ecosystem. Think about this Mediatek is china the deal with Nvidia gives them access to Nvidia GPU designs and if their is a serous break down with the USA for them they will have Nvidia IP to work from by doing this deal.

    Leave a comment:


  • oiaohm
    replied
    Originally posted by numacross View Post
    Of course there are sockets able to take BGA chips, but as you said they are mainly used for development and testing since they are quite expensive. The bigger ones are actually prohibitively expensive due to the torque tooling used in them.
    There are many different designs of torque tooling. You do get BGA sockets in basically the same designs as Land grid array used by Intel with a pinning difference to allow for the solder balls. Yes a Land grid array chip can be used as a BGA just apply solder. Of course there is a catch the force applying heat spreader is not include in the BGA chips price so the BGA socket look more expensive but if you are using cpu + socket cost here it basically the same the heat-spreader cost moves from the CPU to the socket cost.

    The metal heat-spreader on a modern cpu is doing two jobs even that people call it a heat-spreader its a heat and force spreader. Using a force spreader on top of chip provides a really good way to dependably torque down a chip.

    Basically there are multi designs of BGA chip sockets. I have used one of the Land Grid array like BGA sockets on a large FPGA that only comes in BGA package where it is happens to be a risk of getting fried if particular things go wrong. This is not a testing BGA socket this a production grade socket that is only expected to be undone and redone under 1000 times in production. Testing grade BGA sockets they are required to a few million times in endurance.

    More expensive torque tools are using in big sockets of BGA when they are designed multi times a day undone and redone for testing.

    Funny enough the big thing that make testing BGA sockets more expensive is not exactly the torque down bit. Its extra bits so they have to be cleaned less those solder balls under the BGA are not your best friend. Yes the problem of the grim the solder balls can be basically ignored for a production 1000 or less insert because clean socket can be cleaned in the middle. Testing BGA sockets also don't want have a exact matched force spreader so multi models of the same chip can simple go into the same socket.

    There are two difference classes of BGA sockets. Testing and production sockets both have there place. Some cases production soldering a chip on even if it only comes in bga form is bad news. Production BGA sockets look very much like you land gate array sockets with basically the same costs but slightly differently distributed.

    We have seen from china maker do BGA to adaptor to Land grid array with a custom force spread with BGA silicon dia straight to heatsink and this was to put a batch of left over intel BGA chips into standard intel motherboards. Yes this was a non soldered assembly between the BGA and adaptor. So the idea that you are needing more complex/expensive than your standard AMD/Intel land gate array down force system to torque a large BGA is wrong.

    The pinning in the BGA socket to deal with the solder balls properly is slightly more expensive than than a land gate array socket but its also more durable but we are talking under 2 USD dollars for something as many pins as a epyc cpu.

    numacross you are not alone in thinking that BGA sockets have to be massively expensive. Most people don't have a clue that there are production BGA sockets and testing BGA sockets with a massive difference in cost between them that purely link to how many inserts and removes are expect to be performed in their life time and how adaptable they are to other chips other than the intended one for the design.

    Of course a Land grid array socket used under CPU is not exactly cheap when you compare it to soldering that land grid array chip straight on-to the board if you are doing something custom in volume as well. This is also why BGA sockets are not common because a lot of BGA chips are being used in places where there is no intention to repair/replace/upgrade so might as well save the cost and not have a socket. Directly soldered on does gain some reliability as well over socket option due to not having to worry about working loss.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X