Arm Announces ARMv9 Architecture With SVE2

[Almindor]

These days, most programs are written in high level languages (C/C++, Python, Rust, etc) with abstraction on CPU specific instructions. All you have to do is port the compiler and the OS and you're good. GTK4 compiles fine on x86/ARM/POWER/S390x/MIPS

Since you're on phoronix, I'm guessing you're using Linux. In that case 99+% of software works perfectly on your Arm machine (if you can find an Arm CPU that works with vanilla Linux). The rest is either monstrous (chromium) or uses x86 asm for hot code path (like VLC's decoder).


In the case of Windows, since every app is compiled by their developers, it's hard to force them to cross compile for Arm, but that's Microsoft's problem.

Anything closed source won't work simply because it won't get a recompile. So basically all the games.

[coder]

Maybe the next Pi will be a 12nm SoC using A76s, but it depends on the licensing fee. It might go to a 2+4 A76+A55 for example. Faster A72s on 12nm would not be a disaster though.

In an interview at the launch of the Pi v4, Eben Upton said they're expecting to stay on 28 nm for the next few generations, since that's how long it's expected to remain the most economical node. Prior to v4, they had been using 40 nm.

And, on the point about economics, $35 is a red line they'll not willingly cross (i.e. for entry-level models). So, I think maybe the next Pi could use A73 cores, but certainly not A76.

And there's no real case for a big.little configuration, like you have in in a phone SoC. That just adds cost, only to benefit a very small number of users running them off battery power. The main reason other SBCs have a big.little configuration is that they're using existing SoC chips made for things like tablets, whereas the Pi's SoC is now purpose-made by Broadcom specifically for the Pi (the original Pi's SoC was targeted at set-top-boxes).

What it does need is a better GPU configuration, which 12nm would allow

Yes, they're aware of that. Still, at 28 nm I think they're limited in what they can do. Maybe they'll add some AI-oriented instructions. Right now, I think the raw compute power of its GPU is only about on par with the aggregate SIMD performance of its CPU cores.

[coder]

As long as all the software people want to use is mainly written for x86, you can forget about ARM on the desktop. Sorry.

?

Many distros now offer ARM builds, and people have been using Pi as a desktop virtually since its inception! Desktop usage is the whole reason why the Pi v4 has dual-HDMI connectors and can run them at 4k!

[coder]

The rest is either monstrous (chromium) or uses x86 asm for hot code path (like VLC's decoder).

I've run VLC on my Pi since maybe like 2013 or so. I've had VLC on my phones for probably less time than that, but still a long time.

Normally, when you do an optimized asm path, you maintain a generic C/C++ version to use for testing and portability to other platforms. However, I'd be surprised if VLC didn't have an asm path for ARM for many years, already.

In the case of Windows, since every app is compiled by their developers, it's hard to force them to cross compile for Arm, but that's Microsoft's problem.

If they're written in C# or other languages that compile to Microsoft's bytecode format, then they should already run on ARM. Remember, MS was trying to get this all sorted out, back when they were still pushing Windows Phones! They've also supported Surface and other tablets & netbooks with ARM CPUs for a long time.

[coder]

The fastest super computer is A64FX.

Only by comparison with machines using 12 nm GPUs. Once the machines with 7 nm GPUs come online, GPUs will again rule the day.

The fastest server is Ampere Altra (yes it beats not only Rome but also Milan). All Arm based.

No, it's not. It's competitive and wins a decent number of benchmarks, but you really can't call it "fastest". Let's not go though this whole nonsense, yet again.

Once the N2-based servers start shipping, then you'll be able to make that claim. Until then, your agenda will have to cool it.

[coder]

Anything closed source won't work simply because it won't get a recompile. So basically all the games.

That's what emulation is for! Apple published pretty good emulation performance of x86 code on their M1 -- I think someone mentioned 75%?

[TemplarGR]

People are so delusional it is almost tiring to respond. Guys, preaching about the year of the ARM desktop is the same as preaching for the year of the Linux desktop. It's just not happening any time soon, period. "B-b-b-b-but but my distro has binaries for arm....." So what? Commercial software, including all video games (which is the no1 factor behind a platform's adoption and that is a historical FACT) are still made for x86. Period. So yeah, you can use your arm distro but forget about any proprietary code. I can see the waves of billions of users coming on ARM Linux.... NOT.

[TemplarGR]

That's what emulation is for! Apple published pretty good emulation performance of x86 code on their M1 -- I think someone mentioned 75%?

Apple is pretty good at selling overpriced garbage and making overblown claims.

[kvuj]

I've run VLC on my Pi since maybe like 2013 or so. I've had VLC on my phones for probably less time than that, but still a long time.

Normally, when you do an optimized asm path, you maintain a generic C/C++ version to use for testing and portability to other platforms. However, I'd be surprised if VLC didn't have an asm path for ARM for many years, already.

Yeah I know. Both examples I gave were mostly to show popular software. Chromium compiles fine on a lot of arches (though it took some work).

If we take a look at VLC's AV1 decoder, then x86 and ARM have handwritten ASM instructions whereas POWER doesn't and uses plain old C.

If they're written in C# or other languages that compile to Microsoft's bytecode format, then they should already run on ARM. Remember, MS was trying to get this all sorted out, back when they were still pushing Windows Phones! They've also supported Surface and other tablets & netbooks with ARM CPUs for a long time.

I'm not aware of many commercial programs written in C# though. I know a couple of rhythm games (Quaver, osu) and some Java ones, but most apps that stop someone from switching to Linux (photoshop, games, etc) are written in C/C++.

[wizard69]

You got a piece of non extensible and very closed hardware. Yeah, joy.
What I want to see, is something more open to user - configurable memory, pci-e slots, hell socketed processors.

Which is why I suggested a design with one of these new v9 chips. However there is not need for configurable memory, PCI or socketed processors in a laptop designed for high mobility. My concern is about high mobility in a laptop not a workstation classed laptop.