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AMD S2idle Support For Linux Getting Squared Away

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  • tajjada
    replied
    Originally posted by polarathene View Post

    Did it come with Linux or Windows pre-installed?
    It came with Windows. But the behaviour is the same in Windows, too. Regardless of OS, sometimes even the CPU FAN continues spinning for a while, when the system is supposed to be "suspended".

    It's not gonna last more than 24 hrs, no matter the OS.

    Leave a comment:


  • arQon
    replied
    Originally posted by tajjada View Post
    Yeah well, I am not gonna just shit on the concept.

    I am just upset that they are pushing it as the *only* supported form of suspend. Removing the traditional S3 suspend state.
    And that's why I AM "gonna just shit on the concept". It being "supported as a use case" is one thing, and I have no problem with that. But when it comes at the EXPENSE of S3 - which seems to be the majority case judging by the comments - and is objectively massively inferior to that in literally every important real-world case, it DESERVES to be objected to strongly.

    Nobody should be supporting manufacturers who are producing laptops without working Suspend in this day and age, regardless of what bull$#!t hipster excuse they use or whatever defective other forms of S3 they *replace* it with. So now this is another aspect that consumers have to return to investigating ahead of time, just like we used to have to when Suspend failed to work properly on a lot of them under Linux, when we'd finally gotten past that. sigh...

    Leave a comment:


  • tajjada
    replied
    Originally posted by arQon View Post

    Yeah, the whole concept is garbage. WiFi is one of the biggest power consumers on a laptop, and as you say, the whole @#$%ing POINT of suspend is that it powers everything down to, yknow, save power. I really don't want the 200GB+/day of writes to an SSD that hibernation causes as the only way to work around this sort of stupidity.

    Maybe rfkill can help enough to be a workable way to deal with things, but I'd much rather just have proper suspend in the first place.
    Yeah well, I am not gonna just shit on the concept. I am sure some people out there like it (like maybe if you use the laptop mostly in an office environment and benefit from notifications? idk). I am totally cool with it being supported as an use case.

    I am just upset that they are pushing it as the *only* supported form of suspend. Removing the traditional S3 suspend state.

    Leave a comment:


  • Schugy
    replied
    Suspend works great on my HP 15s-eq0355ng (292 €) and it is ok on my Lenovo Ideapd G50-45. Just have to close and open the lid again. S2idle is a nice addition if it's supported.

    Leave a comment:


  • arQon
    replied
    Originally posted by tajjada View Post
    You mean, *reduced* power savings.
    Yeah, the whole concept is garbage. WiFi is one of the biggest power consumers on a laptop, and as you say, the whole @#$%ing POINT of suspend is that it powers everything down to, yknow, save power. I really don't want the 200GB+/day of writes to an SSD that hibernation causes as the only way to work around this sort of stupidity.

    Maybe rfkill can help enough to be a workable way to deal with things, but I'd much rather just have proper suspend in the first place.

    Leave a comment:


  • polarathene
    replied
    Originally posted by tajjada View Post
    All of my older laptops used to be able to stay in a suspended state for days and still have battery, never had to worry about it. With this laptop, if I leave it suspended overnight (or through the day) and not plugged into a charger, when I come back to use it, I'd probably find it low on battery or dead.

    Ironically, the "feature" they've been promoting for "instant-on resume experience" made my laptop unusable in that way and pushed me to use hibernation, which has slower resume times than the old S3 suspend and wears my SSD. But it is the only way to not worry about battery charge all the time.
    Mine is CometLake, I'm not sure if it properly supports s2idle, S3 was an issue as it'd kernel panic on the 2nd resume from suspend since boot, but there's a firmware update that fixes that (requires re-installing windows to apply however..).

    I tried to use s2idle, but because my laptop is a budget model, despite being from a 2019Q4 product release, it had a 2017 manufactured display panel with 2011 eDP version whatever that lacked Panel-Self-Refresh(PSR) support. That prevents the iGPU entering deeper power states, which prevents the system entering lower power states too, thus power usage doesn't seem to drop that much as it's probably intended to. Thus like you, I found battery life not really lasting a day in that "power saving state". On the plus side it didn't cause kernel panics.

    I ended up going with hibernation as well, also with an NVMe disk so the delay is minimal. It would seem unlikely that your Dell laptop would have skimped on the display panel technology though, so I wonder why it's struggling with s2idle as well. Did it come with Linux or Windows pre-installed? I've heard that ACPI tables or something related to that can be a problem with linux support regarding the feature (lot of effort on that front with Microsoft Surface tablets open-source contributors enabling proper s2idle with Linux via patches).

    Leave a comment:


  • sandy8925
    replied
    Originally posted by tajjada View Post
    You mean, *reduced* power savings.

    I hate this new trend of laptops removing support for the traditional S3 suspend state (which properly powers down the entire platform except for RAM) and only supporting S0ix (s2idle) (which is basically the entire system still powered on, but with the CPU in a deep idle state). They say it is to allow for "a device instant-on experience" and getting email notifications and such in the background, like on a phone. I get that Microsoft really wants to be able to have background network activity even while the system is sleeping, but this is *not* an improvement in user experience, no matter how they try to spin it.

    My current laptop (Dell XPS 2-in-1 with 10gen intel icelake) is one of these devices with no proper suspend/S3 support. I have mostly switched to using hibernation instead of suspend, because, simply put, I don't know if it will still have battery when I come back and want to use it. All of my older laptops used to be able to stay in a suspended state for days and still have battery, never had to worry about it. With this laptop, if I leave it suspended overnight (or through the day) and not plugged into a charger, when I come back to use it, I'd probably find it low on battery or dead.

    Ironically, the "feature" they've been promoting for "instant-on resume experience" made my laptop unusable in that way and pushed me to use hibernation, which has slower resume times than the old S3 suspend and wears my SSD. But it is the only way to not worry about battery charge all the time.

    Honestly, with the fast NVMe SSDs nowadays and fast boot settings, hibernate and resume from hibernation are pretty fast (~6-7 sec from power button press until I am in the desktop). But it's still a shame that I have to do this instead of suspend.

    Most new laptops are allegedly like my current laptop with their support (or lack thereof) for suspend states. It seems to be something that Microsoft and Intel are pushing, because I've heard some laptop brands that sell models with Linux preinstalled come with proper firmware supporting S3 suspend, while those that come with Windows don't. It's a shame and I'm sad to hear that AMD is also going in this direction.

    /rant
    Well it's because Windows is trying to adapt and be like Android/iOS - check for instant notifications like messages, email, SMS etc. This is more useful for tablet computers like the Surface, which is trying to compete with iPads, Android tablets (including Kindle tablets).

    Leave a comment:


  • agd5f
    replied
    Originally posted by sandy8925 View Post
    Cool, but which CPUs does this support? Server CPUs only? Or only those specific mobile CPUs that will be used in Chromebooks? And are those the same CPU models that will be used in non-Chromebook laptops as well?
    Client parts (e.g., APUs in laptops). Servers generally don't support modern standby. It's only required if your device does not support legacy S3 (e.g., modern standby only systems).

    Leave a comment:


  • tajjada
    replied
    You mean, *reduced* power savings.

    I hate this new trend of laptops removing support for the traditional S3 suspend state (which properly powers down the entire platform except for RAM) and only supporting S0ix (s2idle) (which is basically the entire system still powered on, but with the CPU in a deep idle state). They say it is to allow for "a device instant-on experience" and getting email notifications and such in the background, like on a phone. I get that Microsoft really wants to be able to have background network activity even while the system is sleeping, but this is *not* an improvement in user experience, no matter how they try to spin it.

    My current laptop (Dell XPS 2-in-1 with 10gen intel icelake) is one of these devices with no proper suspend/S3 support. I have mostly switched to using hibernation instead of suspend, because, simply put, I don't know if it will still have battery when I come back and want to use it. All of my older laptops used to be able to stay in a suspended state for days and still have battery, never had to worry about it. With this laptop, if I leave it suspended overnight (or through the day) and not plugged into a charger, when I come back to use it, I'd probably find it low on battery or dead.

    Ironically, the "feature" they've been promoting for "instant-on resume experience" made my laptop unusable in that way and pushed me to use hibernation, which has slower resume times than the old S3 suspend and wears my SSD. But it is the only way to not worry about battery charge all the time.

    Honestly, with the fast NVMe SSDs nowadays and fast boot settings, hibernate and resume from hibernation are pretty fast (~6-7 sec from power button press until I am in the desktop). But it's still a shame that I have to do this instead of suspend.

    Most new laptops are allegedly like my current laptop with their support (or lack thereof) for suspend states. It seems to be something that Microsoft and Intel are pushing, because I've heard some laptop brands that sell models with Linux preinstalled come with proper firmware supporting S3 suspend, while those that come with Windows don't. It's a shame and I'm sad to hear that AMD is also going in this direction.

    /rant

    Leave a comment:


  • torsionbar28
    replied
    Originally posted by EarthMind View Post
    It's kind of funny to see AMD take advantage of code written by their competitor
    You mean just like Intel using the AMD64 instruction set instead of their own failed attempt at 64 bit, the Itanium?

    Leave a comment:

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