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  • #61
    Even in the best case I can't imagine a solid win for Intel with Rocket Lake. With Zen 2 vs Comet Lake, Intel still had a significant lead in gaming. That's unlikely to come back. Even if they manage to backport Tiger Lake with no compromises (which seems implausible) and achieve > 5 GHz clock speeds, it likely won't be a solid blowout. Will they be able to match and maybe slightly top AMD's performance (in gaming/single-threaded)? Probably. I'm sure Intel will push boost clocks as far as possible with no regards to power consumption. But we likely aren't going to see them significantly improve upon Zen 3.

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    • #62
      I am getting DeJaVu of the 2005 era.
      Intel had to push their Pentium 4 processors to very high temperatures and power usage to keep pace with the Athlon X2's that AMD had at the time.
      Everybody also doomed Intel ...

      Next thing, Intel released the Core2 Due, that was miles ahead of AMD. It took AMD more than 15 years to close that gap.

      Everybody seems to forget how expensive the AMD Athlon FX processors were ...
      AMD will over charge for their processors as well, the moment they know they have the upper hand.

      Lets see if history is going to repeat ...

      BTW I still have a Core2 Due E6600 and an Athlon 64 X2 4200+ from that era. Both in working condition and still usable.
      Last edited by Raka555; 09 October 2020, 08:56 AM.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by bridgman View Post

        I wouldn't expect to find Renoir in your local computer store since we aren't selling them into retail yet. The 3200G and 3400G should be pretty widely available though.
        That's literally why I said "F It" and am holding off until AM5 or whatever the post-AM4 socket is called. Some of us actually want these beefy, badass APUs and it sucks that they're only available in laptops and prebuilt systems.

        JS987 This isn't the best answer, but you can find Ryzen 5 Pro systems with the 4000 series APUs for around $500 USD. Because of my unique situation, a ZoL user, I'm going to have to look into buying my system from somewhere like there and upgrading it to suit my needs because AMD doesn't sell Pro APUs to the public and, AFAIK, the Pro APUs are the only APUs to have guaranteed ECC memory support.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Raka555 View Post
          I am getting DeJaVu of the 2005 era.
          Intel had to push their Pentium 4 processors to very high temperatures and power usage to keep pace with the Athlon X2's that AMD had at the time.
          Everybody also doomed Intel ...

          Next thing, Intel released the Core2 Due, that was miles ahead of AMD. It took AMD more than 15 years to close that gap.

          Lets see if history is going to repeat ...

          BTW I still have a Core2 Due E6600 and an Athlon 64 X2 4200+ from that era. Both in working condition and still usable.
          I'm not. There has to be a reason that Intel is focusing on GPUs more and more and I suspect that it's a combination of AMD APUs usually have better graphics capabilities and there's only so much they can do with x86 so they need another revenue stream. So copy AMD and release CPUs with decent performing GPUs built-in and start releasing standalone GPUs because, especially since Zen for AMD and Skylake for Intel, businesses and people need new GPUs more than they need new CPUs every year or two.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by tildearrow View Post

            Let meeeee
            Entertain you ?

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            • #66
              Originally posted by bridgman View Post

              I wouldn't expect to find Renoir in your local computer store since we aren't selling them into retail yet. The 3200G and 3400G should be pretty widely available though.
              It is probably intentional shortage. Computer store wants to sell X instead Y because of higher profit. It happens also will other products.

              Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
              JS987 This isn't the best answer, but you can find Ryzen 5 Pro systems with the 4000 series APUs for around $500 USD. Because of my unique situation, a ZoL user, I'm going to have to look into buying my system from somewhere like there and upgrading it to suit my needs because AMD doesn't sell Pro APUs to the public and, AFAIK, the Pro APUs are the only APUs to have guaranteed ECC memory support.
              That Core i3 is current crisis plan. Current system will be replaced when many new features will be available like AV1 decoding, Freesync.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by ms178 View Post
                And as I am not an AMD shareholder,
                Sucks for you, I bought new BMW's for me and my wife after selling a few AMD shares this year. As spectacular as the entire Zen architecture has been for computing, so too has the rise in AMD share price for shareholders. Like a literal money machine. A mere $10k invested in AMD shares in early 2016 is a cool half $mil today.
                Last edited by torsionbar28; 09 October 2020, 10:04 AM.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Raka555 View Post
                  I am getting DeJaVu of the 2005 era.
                  Intel had to push their Pentium 4 processors to very high temperatures and power usage to keep pace with the Athlon X2's that AMD had at the time.
                  Everybody also doomed Intel ...

                  Next thing, Intel released the Core2 Due, that was miles ahead of AMD. It took AMD more than 15 years to close that gap.
                  That's because Core Duo was just a respin of the Pentium M "Banias" mobile chip. Banias was known for its superior power efficiency and IPC at much lower clocks than P4, and it was widely speculated that intel would pivot Banias into a desktop product. ITX and embedded systems had already been doing this before intel officially made the move. P4 had been pushed into silly high clocks (for the time) and absurd power/TDP levels and was simply no longer competitive. Essentially, Intel got lucky with the Banias mobile product line.

                  Today does indeed feel like P4 era for Intel once again, but this time intel has no alternate savior microarch in its portfolio. Intel's mobile/desktop/server are all aligned on the same microarch today. It will take intel many years to close the gap this time, and all they can do is once again throw power at it, increasing clocks, power consumption, and heat output in the process, producing less compelling products.
                  Last edited by torsionbar28; 09 October 2020, 10:18 AM.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Marc Driftmeyer View Post
                    Either everyone here is completely broke or lead very sad lives....
                    I unfortunately resemble both halves of that remark. For me, the 6-core and 8-core pricing is not attractive at all. The 8-core 5800x, in particular commands a $150 price premium over the 6-core, which is already quite expensive. The only one which seems to offer an attractive 'most-bang-for-the-bucks' value scenario is the 12-core 5900x, with which you get 4 additional cores for only $100 more than the 8-core version. (It also seems to offer a slightly better maximum default boost clock.)

                    My own usage is multithread video encoding, not gaming. More cores would be good for me, but $549 is more than I can handle - even if would reduce my encode times to roughly 1/3 of my current wall times.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by pinguinpc View Post

                      Its called lack of competition.

                      If Intel has no competition and increases prices, people desirably yell "Booooo" at Intel ...
                      If AMD has no competition and increases prices, people ... wait, your telling us to be happy about it? Because its AMD? No ... that is fanboyish talking.

                      We are not AMD or Intel fans, we are consumers. Every price increase or less value per dollar translates into our pocket. It does not matter if its AMD or Intel doing it.

                      Its funny to see how AMD prices have increased over the generations.

                      Ryzen 1:

                      $499 got you a 8 Core monster when Zen 1 got released. $399 got you a slightly slower 8 Core monster. And this was with the backdrop of Intel 4 Core CPU's.

                      Today:

                      $799 gets you a 16 Core monster, with Zen 3. $550 gets you a 12 Core. $450 gets you a 8 core. $300 gets you a 6 Core. And this is with the backdrop of Intel 10 Core CPU's


                      What does anybody notice?

                      * Your paying more for a 8 Core, then when Ryzen 1 got released 3 years ago. Yes, IPC gains happened but your actual value / core has gone down.
                      * Your not getting anymore top of the line CPU's for $499. Now that money does not even get you the 12 Core anymore.
                      * Even second tier CPU like the 1700X was only $399. A second tier CPU now is the 5900X at $550.
                      * Even the 6 Core got a nice 50% price increase as most people normally buy the almost same performing "second tier" 6 core aka the non-x, what is again missing.

                      And do not mention Zen 2 because we know just like with previous generations, that Zen 2 is going to stop production and after a few months, supply will dry out. Its a bad sign when people tell you to buy the previous generation.

                      Its like we are sliding backwards and its like we are looking more and more at Intel/Nvidia, then AMD. Now AMD is talking about buying more companies again, the main reason what frankly destroyed AMD in the first place, was their original buying and building habits ( combined with lack of investment ). I remember AMD its fall vivid. The arrogance that killed its market dominance at that time and we are starting to see the same signs again.

                      AMD: Hey, we got money, lets not invest this into better products to dominate the market. No, lets buy more Billion dollars companies and "hope" things go better with the integration then it did with all our past ventures.

                      Maybe people can not see what is going on. While AMD does deliver on the technical parts, they have also been systematically increasing prices / market segmenting their CPU's over the generations, just like Nvidia had done. And while everybody can say AMD is a company that needs to make money. It does not excuse a fanboyism about how AMD needs to be exempt from criticism when they are pulling the same stuff that Intel/Nvidia does.

                      A lesson is simple: Without competition any company will increase prices / segment product into high prices etc. It does not matter if that company is called AMD or Intel or Nvidia. That bad thing is that the one's who end up paying more, is ... the consumer. Do not kit yourself.

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