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AMD Begins Teasing Zen 3 + RDNA 2 With Dates In October

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  • #31
    damn i hate this stupid us dates ...

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    • #32
      Originally posted by atomsymbol

      Just some notes:
      • Weird terminology: "grim reading" ?
      • Zen 3 desktop CPUs will be benchmarked against Comet Lake and against the successor to Comet Lake which will be using an architecture derived from Sunny Cove running at about 4.5-5.0 GHz
      The successor to Comet Lake is Rocket Lake-S, but it's still manufactured in 14 nm and not a full backport of the new microarchitecture and just has 8 cores maximum (for the time being). Limited IPC improvements and high power consumption are expected. Plus it's going to be released in 2021, probably at least half a year after Zen 3. It really doesn't look that great for Intel, unless AMD unexpectedly screws up Zen 3 completely.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by atomsymbol
        In my opinion, the fact that Intel CPUs based on an architecture with a higher IPC than Skylake will be released several months after Zen 3 is less important than you are suggesting.
        Hmm? Did you mean more important?

        Comet Lake is faster than Zen 2 in most games.
        There have been a lot of hints that Zen 3 changes that.

        Why would "AMD unexpectedly screws up Zen 3 completely"? This isn't making sense.
        They obviously wouldn't choose to do that. The point being that if the performance that everyone is expecting from Zen 3 turns out to be what we actually get, it looks bad for Intel. If Zen 3 unexpectedly has some major weakness where Intel is still ahead of them (like gaming for Zen 2) then Intel might be able to stay relevant.

        I expect 10nm Intel CPUs based on refined Sunny Cove architecture to outperform Zen 3 and potentially to also outperform Zen 4.
        I think the point brent was making is that Rocket Lake isn't based on 10nm. It's another 14nm CPU.

        Also, we already pretty much know what the 10nm version would look like in the form of Tigerlake. I'd say that's probably around what we can expect from Zen 3. It'd be a major disappointment if Zen 4 wasn't a lot faster.

        It is uncertain whether Zen 3+ supports AVX-512 instructions, and if it supports AVX-512 whether it has 512-bit datapaths or 256-bit datapaths. Considering how long it takes for a finished CPU design to be manufactured in sufficient quantities for mass consumption, it has already been decided whether Zen 3/4 support AVX-512.
        Zen 3 doesn't support it. The rumor is it's planned for Zen 4, but obviously you can take that with a grain of salt since it's release is a ways off.
        Last edited by smitty3268; 10 September 2020, 06:19 PM.

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        • #34
          I have been trying to support amd for years now simply because I believe in opensource.

          It has not been a happy journey on the gpu site though.

          AMD phenom II x 4 and now Ryzen 5 2600, work fine no complains there.

          With the phenom I had an HD5700 vid card, and then steam came to Linux.
          It took amd over a year, to have decent drivers for a game I have, serious sam3.

          On windows 7 on the same pc, the game run fine, but not on LInux. It was unplayeble bad at first.

          When the HD 5700 needed replacing, I went team green.


          I still have hope they learned from previous mistakes. Lets see if they come with an nice upgrade for my rx 570.

          ( and make the opensource drivers (the compute part, rocm) work in Blender)

          Its very frustrating, on windows 10 install amd drivers , and it works in Blender too.
          Not on Linux with the opensource drivers though.

          I might try again but failed the first time, the solution in theory is simple, install only the rocm part of the closed source drivers next to the opensource drivers.

          Last edited by Gps4l; 10 September 2020, 06:34 PM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Gps4l View Post
            I have been trying to support amd for years now simply because I believe in opensource.

            It has not been a happy journey on the gpu site though.

            AMD phenom II x 4 and now Ryzen 5 2600, work fine no complains there.

            With the phenom I had an HD5700 vid card, and then steam came to Linux.
            It took amd over a year, to have decent drivers for a game I have, serious sam3.

            On windows 7 on the same pc, the game run fine, but not on LInux. It was unplayeble bad at first.

            When the HD 5700 needed replacing, I went team green.


            I still have hope they learned from previous mistakes. Lets see if they come with an nice upgrade for my rx 570.

            ( and make the opensource drivers (the compute part, rocm) work in Blender)

            Its very frustrating, on windows 10 install amd drivers , and it works in Blender too.
            Not on Linux with the opensource drivers though.

            I might try again but failed the first time, the solution in theory is simple, install only the rocm part of the closed source drivers next to the opensource drivers.
            Made me try to remember my hardware usage under Linux. I first started to experiment with Linux on my college laptop with crummy AMD Sempron CPU and an integrated X200 chip. No viable opensource drivers back then so if someone wanted any sort of 3D they had to wrestle with fglrx. Fun times, but I actually got good at installing and troubleshooting those drivers on several distros.
            I think the only nvidia card I ever used under Linux was a 7900gs. It all was ATI/AMD for me. I remember the proprietary drivers starting to get sort of decent with my HD2900Pro. I stopped using them after I got a HD7850, and it was all open source drivers for me from then on.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Melcar View Post

              Made me try to remember my hardware usage under Linux. I first started to experiment with Linux on my college laptop with crummy AMD Sempron CPU and an integrated X200 chip. No viable opensource drivers back then so if someone wanted any sort of 3D they had to wrestle with fglrx. Fun times, but I actually got good at installing and troubleshooting those drivers on several distros.
              I think the only nvidia card I ever used under Linux was a 7900gs. It all was ATI/AMD for me. I remember the proprietary drivers starting to get sort of decent with my HD2900Pro. I stopped using them after I got a HD7850, and it was all open source drivers for me from then on.
              Exactly that, I remember after I went team green, I could in the game serious sam3 not tell anymore, if I was on Linux or Windows.
              With AMD that was a different story.

              I have tried serious sam again 3 btw on the current opensource drivers with my RX570 on opensuse tumbleweed, and although most old games complains about the opensource drivers not being supported, all is fine in game.

              It was so bad in the beginnings of steam, that most game studios, just said, amd is not supported.
              I remember one of the devs of SS3 saying there is no reason on our site why the game runs worse on Linux (amd).
              I was skceptical at first but sadly he was right, the amd linux driver were bad. (closed and opensource)

              Edit:
              Would love to see some competition from AMD on the GPU site.
              Last edited by Gps4l; 10 September 2020, 08:10 PM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by atomsymbol
                I did not.
                Ok, that part of your comment really confuses me then. I'm not sure what point you were getting at.

                You implicitly want AMD and Intel to release new CPUs at the very same date. Your hidden assumption is unlikely to materialize.
                I really don't. I don't care when they release - if anything, I want both of them to release as soon as possible, because that's the best thing for consumers.

                What is the point of these conjectures? You could also just as well conjecture that Zen 3 will perform 10% better (single-threaded IPC) than Zen 2 and try to predict a possible future based on that. Or you could conjecture that AMD will shift pricing so that 8-core Zen 3 takes the place of 6-core Zen 2.

                There are many more possible futures to talk about, so why keep focusing on just one of them?
                I'm pointing out what is largely assumed to be the future based on the leaks we have at the current time. Zen 3 is pretty close now, it's unlikely there are going to be many shocking surprises at this point.

                Most Intel notebook CPUs are transitioning to 10nm now.
                Tigerlake looks pretty good, as long as you are ok with 4 cores. Although the conversation appeared to be around desktop systems, not laptops so this feels like a change of topic, and I do think Zen 3 will be pretty competitive with it.

                Intel's newer refined 10nm manufacturing process enables 10% higher frequencies and enables AVX-512 to run longer at turbo frequencies.
                Again, Intel's desktop chips are still going to be on 14nm for a while longer, so this is besides the point.

                Another rumour about Zen 3 is that floating-point performance is increased by up to 50% - which might mean that Zen 3 adds another AVX-256 FMA unit.
                That rumor is long since dead and hasn't popped up again - it's not happening.
                Last edited by smitty3268; 11 September 2020, 05:41 AM.

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                • #38
                  Looking forward to starting a new PC build with Zen 3 and RTX 3080.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
                    I'm really looking forward to their APUs, especially those 8c16t ones. I'd love to replace my current 2011 8c16t system with no built-in GPU with a 2020 8c16t system with a built-in GPU. The only problem I foresee with that plan is my current use of ZFS and ECC memory and how the APUs usually only support ECC with their OEM-only Pro APUs.
                    The ECC support is a real gap in AMD's product lineup. The intel E3/E series Xeons have no competition. The last time AMD offered a socketed server chip with ECC in 35w-65w TDP range was with the C32 socket Opteron 4000 series. I still have a few Opteron 4376 machines running actually, they are a great value even today on the second hand market.

                    One can only hope that AMD intends to fill this void with a future EPYC 5000 series part. With the current 3/5/7 series product branding, I have to believe 5000 series parts are in the works. The only question is what kind of socket they would use, as the 7000 series socket is overkill for this market segment.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by atomsymbol

                      https://www.techpowerup.com/review/f...releases/#zen3 still "believes" that there will be 50% faster floating-point.

                      In general: A rumour cannot be disproved by unofficial statements from sources which are as much disputable/non-credible as the source of the rumour.
                      That's just repeating long since debunked stuff from months ago. Note that it claims AVX512 too, which would explain the increased fp performance. That original rumor was likely about Zen 4 plans rather than what's in Zen 3.

                      It's true that this is all rumors, so we'll have to wait a couple more weeks to see what AMD officially unveils. But it would be truly shocking if they managed to successfully hide something that large from everyone so late into the release.
                      Last edited by smitty3268; 27 September 2020, 08:56 PM.

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