A Few More Linux Kernel Patches Floated This Week For AMD Family 19h (Zen 3)

[birdie]

Someone is just thick.

Even the beloved AMD doesn't fully release all the info about their GPUs/CPUs but somehow NVIDIA is bad and AMD is great. Meanwhile NVIDIA has open sourced the design of some of their mobile chips (Tegra SoCs) and they do contribute for the nouveau project. Double effing standards. It's all so effing ridiculous.

It's amazing how you keep completely ignoring my arguments and instead you're offering your own which have nothing to do with either the "bad" NVIDIA, or the "good" AMD. Darn. An ostensibly talented developer and a smart person. Yeah, right.

[Akusari]

I'm not to worried about that issues, because really most of them are fixed in a short time manner. Don't forget: AMD is really changing the industry in a lot of ways, with their heavy multicore liftings. On the other side I don't see any real progress at intel, so they launch the same hardware again..and again...and again, which will naturally cause less pain.

my my
Yeah, that's true anyway. Without AMD Ryzen i bet i would still stick on a 8-core machine. Today with Ryzen my workstation loves all 32 cores inside and me too :-P

[rene]

Oh yeah:

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/b...lly-repairable

Enough with throwing shat at me. None of your examples are worth shat, your open RISC CPU design is not used by anyone, 99.99% of CPUs for desktop PCs out there are Intel's and AMD's and the companies will never release RTL sources for their modern CPUs. Never. Intel hasn't done that for their ages old Pentium Pro CPU.

Again, I keep telling you that even AMD doesn't fully support Open Source, has a lot of hidden features, has a lot of crapware in their CPU/GPU designs (HDCP, encryption, what gives you), Intel has Intel ME and you keep telling me I'm a shill and NVIDIA is the worst offender.

Speaking of this "open" movement. It's solely in your head. Google alone nowadays dictates the development of pseudo-open HTML, there are zero modern triple-A games which are released as open source, in fact 99% of games are closed source. A ton of specialized software will never be released as open source. In fact, forget about Linux/FreeBSD and suddenly, open source is just not there. The largest chunk of the world's most popular mobile OS, Android, is closed source. Yeah, I'm talking about Google Play Frameworks and shat, their libraries for image/audio/video processing, etc. etc. etc.

Companies do open source when they see a competitive edge in that but there's nothing more than that.

Enough with this shat.



That's not even an argument, dude. Learn to argue first. What an idiot we have here. Zero arguments, zero counterarguments, zero facts, zero data, zero nothing.

Basically everything you write here is false, but I have better things to do that chat with an nvidia advertising bot. One thing said though, there is even more open source than you think, not just Linux, but GCC, LLVM, Firefox, OpenOffice, FPGA synthesis (Yosys, Nextpnr) and ten thousands of projects more. And it is mostly and usually not done by companies for competitive edge, but by people as a hobby or to make the world a better place. Something you apparently do not underwent the concept of at all. PS: while at it: #FridaysForFuture.

[birdie]

Man you are clearly on the wrong website, if not on someones Ad payroll.

Oh yeah:

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/b...lly-repairable

Enough with throwing shat at me. None of your examples are worth shat, your open RISC CPU design is not used by anyone, 99.99% of CPUs for desktop PCs out there are Intel's and AMD's and the companies will never release RTL sources for their modern CPUs. Never. Intel hasn't done that for their ages old Pentium Pro CPU.

Again, I keep telling you that even AMD doesn't fully support Open Source, has a lot of hidden features, has a lot of crapware in their CPU/GPU designs (HDCP, encryption, what gives you), Intel has Intel ME and you keep telling me I'm a shill and NVIDIA is the worst offender.

Speaking of this "open" movement. It's solely in your head. Google alone nowadays dictates the development of pseudo-open HTML, there are zero modern triple-A games which are released as open source, in fact 99% of games are closed source. A ton of specialized software will never be released as open source. In fact, forget about Linux/FreeBSD and suddenly, open source is just not there. The largest chunk of the world's most popular mobile OS, Android, is closed source. Yeah, I'm talking about Google Play Frameworks and shat, their libraries for image/audio/video processing, etc. etc. etc.

Companies do open source when they see a competitive edge in that but there's nothing more than that.

Enough with this shat.

Lol. This has to be the least competent trolling I've seen in a long time. Get your shit together, man.

That's not even an argument, dude. Learn to argue first. What an idiot we have here. Zero arguments, zero counterarguments, zero facts, zero data, zero nothing.

[rene]

Oh, finally some sanity here.

Well,

• Neither AMD, nor Intel fully open source their designs and everything that's related to their ostensibly Linux-supported products like GPUs/CPUs/co-processors/AI-accelerators/etc. They open source just enough to be able to write somewhat functional Linux drivers
• AMD doesn't even want to open the specs for Zen 1/2 CPU registers which are necessary to properly monitor them
• The complexity of modern CPUs/GPUs is so high, you can forget about any schematics because the said things are extremely well guarded trade secrets 'cause if they hadn't been guarded, the Chinese would have copied them and created better products
• It's not about CPUs/GPUs/other compute devices though: the same applies to cars, tractors, freezers, microwave ovens, etc. Companies do everything to make it impossible for the laymen to repair or tinker with their devices. NVIDIA is not the first and the worst offender. They just follow the world order
• Yeah, you haven't been able to program your CPUs/GPUs for many years already 'cause you cannot even access their internal abstractions layers directly
• There are basically no modern electronic devices (even the ones "supported" by Linux) which can run without proprietary closed obscure firmware

The world has long been drifting towards everything being hidden, protected, concealed or closed (and as a result impossible to repair or be tinkered with) whether you like it or not. Go become a politician to change the status quo. Again not NVIDIA's fault.

Man you are clearly on the wrong website, if not on someones Ad payroll.

AMD has at least the balls to release quite large parts of the GPU specs, the few bits for the temperature probe? Who gives a shit, we know them already anyway. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNwh9VgynK8

Of course AMD and Intel or other companies could release their RTL source, just like Sun did for the T1 or T2, and open vendors do for RISCV. Nobody is stopping them, certainly not complexity. Can't release browser, kernel or OpenOffice sources because too big, too complex or what? http://opensparc.org

Of course you can repair modern cards, tractors, SMD laptops, look at all the car tuning and repair enthusiasts, and Luis Rossmand & Repair Family hot air soldering w/ microscope live on YT: https://www.youtube.com/user/rossmanngroup https://www.youtube.com/user/Samcrac

What does a GPU abstraction layer help me for my own OS? Can't just use their windows blob on Linux, Haiku, my own micro kernel Can't use their Linux binary on PowerPC, RISCV, SPARC, etc. Linux, e.g on my PS3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_NazUnD_u8

Also even most modern integrated circuits work without firmware. Many NICs, NVMe, SATA, etc. And for security and long term support and maintainability it should be this way. This modern trend to rush stuff cheap to market and load firmware because not finished, not bug free and no time for an eprom is IMHO really annoying. For all OS and even future Windows to support. But then again: planned obsolescence, ...

The world is not long drifting towards hidden and obscure things and protocols, just look at the open web, open protocols, and Open Source, w/ Linux, and all the ten thousands of major projects. You clearly live under a rock, or are a paid bot do post this crap.
Given that there are many more open alternatives and companies always have a choice, this clearly is Nvidia's fault. They are among the most Linux and developer unfriendly. And given that there are always better examples in each and every category this is not the status quo, this is just the status of crappy, user unfriendly companies, that do not deserve our money or support. Vote with your wallet against this crap.

[smitty3268]

Lol. This has to be the least competent trolling I've seen in a long time. Get your shit together, man.

[birdie]

I do Linux since 1996, long before Phoronix was a thing. And 12 Patches is what I do on a daily average ;-) Don't tell me what I should accept from hardware vendors. They want to sell hardware, the developer documentation (register level) must be open. Just because of the good old Windows monopoly they can hide behind their limited binary only driver blob. Back in the day TVs, hi-fi equipment, heck even fridges and cars came with schematics to repair, nowadays we can't even program our GPU anymore? Imagine CPU vendors would do that and you could only install Windows, and could not even write your own software easily. Had to write any application software only using their proprietary SDK. You clearly have no further insight in this matters, or are on Nvidia's payroll. Or booth.

Oh, finally some sanity here.

Well,

• Neither AMD, nor Intel fully open source their designs and everything that's related to their ostensibly Linux-supported products like GPUs/CPUs/co-processors/AI-accelerators/etc. They open source just enough to be able to write somewhat functional Linux drivers
• AMD doesn't even want to open the specs for Zen 1/2 CPU registers which are necessary to properly monitor them
• The complexity of modern CPUs/GPUs is so high, you can forget about any schematics because the said things are extremely well guarded trade secrets 'cause if they hadn't been guarded, the Chinese would have copied them and created better products
• It's not about CPUs/GPUs/other compute devices though: the same applies to cars, tractors, freezers, microwave ovens, etc. Companies do everything to make it impossible for the laymen to repair or tinker with their devices. NVIDIA is not the first and the worst offender. They just follow the world order
• Yeah, you haven't been able to program your CPUs/GPUs for many years already 'cause you cannot even access their internal abstractions layers directly
• There are basically no modern electronic devices (even the ones "supported" by Linux) which can run without proprietary closed obscure firmware

The world has long been drifting towards everything being hidden, protected, concealed or closed (and as a result impossible to repair or be tinkered with) whether you like it or not. Go become a politician to change the status quo. Again not NVIDIA's fault.

[birdie]

You did no such thing. This is the first time you've even mentioned the US.

For the record, here are your previous posts:

Not a single word about location. You are very adamant that other people are lying and that it's completely impossible to get any kind of nvidia laptop without windows, no exceptions.

Yeah, what about that?

Speaking of Europe: if I'm not mistaken they enacted this peculiar law which mandates that laptop OEMs must sell laptops without Windows preinstalled in certain countries/certain models/etc - I don't know the details. And right under the first laptop:

https://www.computeruniverse.net/de/...gb-ssd-freedos

A gazillion of offers to buy Windows 10. Kinda silly if you think about that. Also show me where any of these etailers mention Linux at least once on the pages of their website. I dare you. Or better yet show me results from Amazon, Newegg, B&H, BestBuy, OfficeDepot, etc.

Again, for the fourth time in this discussion. I don't give a damn about the EU where such laptops are being sold.

Laptop vendors in real life:

• do not mention Linux support on the pages of their websites (except for Dell and System76 for laptops which are sold with Linux preinstalled)
• do not provide Linux support in any shape or form (except for certain models which come with Linux preinstalled)
• sometimes refuse to RMA the laptops which have been found to have run Linux (likewise)

If you make a conscious decision to install an unsupported OS on your laptop you're sh-t out of luck and you cannot blame anyone. Period. Open Source fans cannot understand that. The world owes them everything. Except the world doesn't revolve around you.

In the first comment to this thread I mentioned how AMD doesn't fully support Open Source. Funny enough open source fans, instead of admitting it, have quickly changed the topic and cast the old scapegoat. What a circus we have here.

I'm over and out. Desperately wanna sleep instead of arguing with the deranged.

[birdie]

birdie you've been called out for moving the goal posts. Admit you were wrong about being able to buy Intel+nVidia laptops without Windows preinstalled. Not sure why you have this fighting attitude, I didn't see anyone attacking until you fired first shots.

Anyway, if we're not vocal about what we want in hardware, we're less likely to get it. We don't know who reads what on the internet, maybe some of the company reps read these forums from time to time. I know for sure that I'm looking for a decent AMD based laptop next up, steering well clear of Intel and nVidia, even if they're more performant (at least on the GPU side that could be true.. AMD has done a great job with their CPUs).

I don't have anything to admit. Broken laptops due to dubious European laws don't count. Also, forget about the laws. You go to the support pages of the respective laptops and what you can see? Support is provided only for Windows. Period. You must be mentally handicapped or alternatively gifted to try running Linux on a laptop which has zero indication that it's compatible with this obscure OS for open source fans. In fact there have been cases when vendors refused to RMA laptops after they found out people had been running Linux on their laptops. Oh, a fun fact, people running Linux have managed to kill their motherboards and laptops. Like physically by destroying ROM chips. It was a few years ago.

NVIDIA is a major corporation and it knows how to make money. They are not in the business of catering to a vocal minority of some weirdos who all know how companies should run their businesses, yet most of them don't have any businesses to speak of. Have you tried removing a crown off your head once in a while?

Even AMD which is worshiped to no end does not adequately and fully support Linux, yet open source fans kinda love the company like its their savior. The only reason AMD does support open source is that they see a competitive advantage in doing that. They do not that out of good intentions or because they are benevolent towards open source.

God, 99.9% of Linux/Open Source fans who hate NVIDIA are just worthless people with zero understanding of how this world works. That's all so pathetic it's just cringe worthy. No support has even been promised either tacitly or openly yet open source fans have the insolence to require one. Wow. Why don't you all collectively hate Apple for not providing support for running Linux on Macs? Why is it always NVIDIA?

Meanwhile I've been using Linux with NVIDIA graphics pretty successfully since the late 90s. Can't complain, everything works, save for some currently worthless open source toys like Wayland. Over ten years in development - can't match what Xfree86 managed to achieve with a lot less resources and time. Still has major issues and still is absolutely worthless as a modern graphical subsystem.

[lem79]

birdie you've been called out for moving the goal posts. Admit you were wrong about being able to buy Intel+nVidia laptops without Windows preinstalled. Not sure why you have this fighting attitude, I didn't see anyone attacking until you fired first shots.

Anyway, if we're not vocal about what we want in hardware, we're less likely to get it. We don't know who reads what on the internet, maybe some of the company reps read these forums from time to time. I know for sure that I'm looking for a decent AMD based laptop next up, steering well clear of Intel and nVidia, even if they're more performant (at least on the GPU side that could be true.. AMD has done a great job with their CPUs).