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The Performance Impact Of MDS / Zombieload Plus The Overall Cost Now Of Spectre/Meltdown/L1TF/MDS

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  • #31
    Originally posted by xfcemint View Post
    I would mostly prefer if the greedy bastards at Intel & friends did their job properly on the processor that I paid. Why can't they replace my CPU with a propery working model? I mean, it didn't say "full of holes" on the box I bought. Why am I not entitled to a CPU replacement? What a scam.
    Never gonna happen, they can "fix" everything in microcode now. They begrudgingly replaced FDIV-bugged Pentiums because that wasn't a possibility at the time.

    I really support Quinn Norton's motion of holding those companies liable in court for vulnerabilities like this. (Never gonna happen either, sadly.)

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    • #32
      Originally posted by angrypie View Post

      A 486 is faster now, since it isn't affected by any of those flaws. Time to dust off my DX4-100.

      As for those flaws being "highly unlikely" to be used in the wild: there's a thing called "off-the-shelf malware." And let's not forget that Spectre is a flaw that runs deep inside the uarch, so it's highly likely there are more exploits to be discovered. With those flaws all over the press there's more incentive to exploit it.

      Of course Intel knew it all along. If a much smaller company like AMD could foresee the nastiness and take measures to secure their CPUs, so could Intel.
      Good luck with that 486 of yours, if you are lucky you can cram about 70 MIPS out of the old beast while a modern i7 can give you aprox 100000-300000 MIPS depending on model and clockrate still with all these mitigations enabled. Anyone claiming that the mitigations here brings the performance back to or even worse than a 486 have never actually used one or have a really rose tainted memory.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by xfcemint View Post
        Gamers are a minority, but a very vocal minoritiy. As usual, their priorities seem to be revolving about producing greater integers in applications called 'benchmarks'. The problem is that some people are going to listen to their brilliant logic about what's important and what's not.
        How come it is "ok" to loose performance due to security patches that fix some hypothetical scenario in the computing world... and even being called somewhat of a dumbass for pointing that out... While VW owners loosing power and torque after the "dieselgate fix" is applied have a perfectly valid reason to demand their money back?

        I mean, in the world of IT almost anything is acceptable, while when it comes to most other stuff in the world you would never ever get away with something like that. How would it look if you got to your VW dealer and complains about loosing power, and the response was "Oh we are sorry we messed that up, but you could always buy the new 2019 model!"? This is something that seems totally oki when it comes to computers...

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        • #34
          Cybersecurity researchers at the Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam, also known as VU Amsterdam, allege that Intel tried to bribe them to suppress knowledge of the latest processor security vulnerability RIDL (rogue in-flight data load), which the company made public on May 14. Dutch publication Nieuwe Ro...

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          • #35
            Originally posted by F.Ultra View Post

            Good luck with that 486 of yours, if you are lucky you can cram about 70 MIPS out of the old beast while a modern i7 can give you aprox 100000-300000 MIPS depending on model and clockrate still with all these mitigations enabled. Anyone claiming that the mitigations here brings the performance back to or even worse than a 486 have never actually used one or have a really rose tainted memory.
            It's enough to run Doom and that's all I care about.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by xfcemint View Post

              Peak MIPS is a bad way to measure performance.

              Realistically, a 486-DX4 100 MHz is about 100x slower than a modern single-core.
              Let's see, 40x times higher clock-frequency, and an average IPC these days of two something vs single-cycle architecture's fixed 1 IPC.. Yeah, checks out. Almost exactly 100 times slower on average.

              Edit: Though if you measuren float-point performance, and SIMD optimized benchmark scores, then a modern processor can get up to being a few thousand times faster.
              Last edited by carewolf; 19 May 2019, 03:23 PM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Code Artisan View Post
                https://make-linux-fast-again.com/

                Code:
                noibrs noibpb nopti nospectre_v2 nospectre_v1 l1tf=off nospec_store_bypass_disable no_stf_barrier mds=off mitigations=off[URL="https://make-linux-fast-again.com/"][/URL]
                Just use mitigations=off

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Cybmax View Post

                  How come it is "ok" to loose performance due to security patches that fix some hypothetical scenario in the computing world... and even being called somewhat of a dumbass for pointing that out... While VW owners loosing power and torque after the "dieselgate fix" is applied have a perfectly valid reason to demand their money back?

                  I mean, in the world of IT almost anything is acceptable, while when it comes to most other stuff in the world you would never ever get away with something like that. How would it look if you got to your VW dealer and complains about loosing power, and the response was "Oh we are sorry we messed that up, but you could always buy the new 2019 model!"? This is something that seems totally oki when it comes to computers...
                  VW owners got fixes and money back because of the decrease in MPG and power (with an emissions fix), and buyouts because of the harm to the environment. Less MPG does mean you'll be spending more. Less power doesn't necessarily mean you'll get somewhere slower when obeying speed limits. Also, the environment is more important than the performance of a still correctly functioning processor.

                  Originally posted by xfcemint View Post
                  ...Why can't they replace my CPU with a propery working model?...
                  I mostly don't think Intel knew what it was doing. These flaws are hard to exploit, because there are no direct ways to attack buffers in any of the exploits, it's all indirect and still pretty hard to do. If any of these attacks were more direct, you might have a case like the divide by zero bug where Intel did recall the processors. Without evidence though, you'll never prove either way, and it's plausible to think the choice of more performance was correct if it wasn't provable that indirect exploits could be done... like in the case of Spectre.

                  For the length of time this has been out there though, this fuck up does somewhat go in the Facebook category of "moved too fast, and fucked things up." So as a consumer, I'm mostly hoping the tech companies make sure they aren't releasing stuff that will have bad unknown collateral consequences later on. Though compared to the still on-going Facebook fuck ups, Intel's is still relatively minor. We all still have working processors with working software. Performance is still relative to your setup, more/faster RAM/SSD/GPU are still far more likely to help you get more performance on any variety of real world tasks than switching from a 7700k (buggy) to a newer 9700k (fixed).
                  Last edited by audir8; 19 May 2019, 06:21 PM.

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                  • #39
                    dav1d results:

                    -MDS Mitigated-

                    E3-1275v6: 74.97fps
                    8700K: 111.14fps
                    7980XE: 151.26fps
                    9900K: 135.35fps

                    -MDS Vulnerable-

                    E3-1275v6: 75.09fps
                    8700K: 111.69fps
                    7980XE: 151.71fps
                    9900K: 135.55fps

                    I have to keep doing this until my patches are merged...

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                    • #40
                      dav1d results for overall mitigation impact:

                      Summer Nature 4K

                      -No Mitigations-

                      6800K: 88.65fps
                      8700K: 111.61fps
                      7980XE: 151.70fps
                      2700X: 105.69fps
                      2990WX: 176.61fps

                      -Mitigations-

                      6800K: 88.26fps
                      8700K: 111.13fps
                      7980XE: 151.70fps
                      2700X: 105.90fps (!)
                      2990WX: 174.05fps

                      -Mitigations plus No Hyper-Threading-

                      6800K: 66.75fps
                      8700K: 88.13fps
                      7980XE: 139.65fps
                      2700X: N/A
                      2990WX: N/A

                      Summer Nature 1080p

                      -No Mitigations-

                      6800K: 279.95fps
                      8700K: 377.27fps
                      7980XE: 287.77fps
                      2700X: 306.11fps
                      2990WX: 457.81fps

                      -Mitigations-

                      6800K: 279.08fps
                      8700K: 375.31fps
                      7980XE: 288fps (!)
                      2700X: 307.94fps (!)
                      2990WX: 456.07fps

                      -Mitigations plus No Hyper-Threading-

                      6800K: 226.46fps
                      8700K: 300.25fps
                      7980XE: 237.82fps
                      2700X: N/A
                      2990WX: N/A

                      I thought by v0.2 I'd see this thing in FPS rather than vague seconds?

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