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The First Benchmarks Of The Intel-Powered ODROID-H2 $111 Board

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  • #41
    Originally posted by arizone View Post

    https://www.delock.de/produkte/G_627...setLanguage=en
    Probably this extension would be OK. Somewhat not so cheap though.
    wow that looks realy nice only delock is not the best choice
    but Chipset: Intel® i210 is ok

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    • #42
      Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
      Let me stop you right there kiddo.
      This device would be fine for application server type of jobs, aka running an application accessible over the network. Or even for basic web server duties (it's not like you need a 16-core rack server for most company websites)
      It has enough ports for a RAID1 in case the customer actually needs the added reliability, but in many cases these devices are not RAIDed and are restored from a backup in the rare case it actually dies.

      It's a goddamn PC, the amount of "integration hours" is the same as deploying a single goddamn tower workstation PC as application server. Install Windows, install application software, configure the shit, remove keyboard and mouse.

      I've wasted so much hours setting up "hyperconverged" setups (aka VMWare ESXi servers hosting VMs with various services) for stupid small-businness shit that could have been done by a bunch of random tower PC that they could have actually be able to manage on their own instead.
      Yes I understand the CPU/RAM/IO is sufficient to run a very small server with, and that a skilled hobbyist like yourself would be able to use it as such. Great - but for business use, that's all totally irrelevant. In a business environment, the labor hours spent on a task are oftentimes more important (read: expensive), than the hardware cost, to include support and warranty.

      From a business perspective, the integration time of a rack or tower server is minimal. The integration time of this widget is likely several *days*. It is absolutely not at all anything like "a single goddamn tower PC". With this widget, you need someone to source additional components - cables and drives for storage, RAM, cables and adapters for power, network cables, and then some kind of (custom?) enclosure to secure all the parts into. You are on the hook for ensuring the parts all work together. You are on the hook for compatibility. You are on the hook for thermal and power design. You are on the hook for testing and validation. You have no vendor you can call for support, and you have a half dozen different vendors you have to work with for warranty claims. And since this is a business, you are PAYING someone hourly or a salary to do all this crap.

      Are you really suggesting that It's cheaper to pay someone to build a wonky one-off micro server, than it is to just buy a small ready made one?
      Last edited by torsionbar28; 11-30-2018, 11:01 AM.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by torsionbar28 View Post
        Yes I understand the CPU/RAM/IO is sufficient to run a very small server with, and that a skilled hobbyist like yourself would be able to use it as such. Great - but for business use, that's all totally irrelevant. In a business environment, the labor hours spent on a task are oftentimes more important (read: expensive), than the hardware cost, to include support and warranty.
        Guess what, kiddo?
        That's my actual job. The company I work with provides IT support to small companies that can't afford to pay a resident IT technician, and yes we do set up "micro servers" all the time.

        I didn't mention "tower PC" for nothing. That's what these "micro servers" usually are in the physical world. Some cheap-ass HP workstation (which isn't terribly cheap for a consumer but costs like an order of magnitude less of a server).

        With this widget, you need someone to source additional components - cables and drives for storage, RAM, cables and adapters for power, network cables, and then some kind of (custom?) enclosure to secure all the parts into. You are on the hook for ensuring the parts all work together. You are on the hook for compatibility. You are on the hook for thermal and power design. You are on the hook for testing and validation. You have no vendor you can call for support, and you have a half dozen different vendors you have to work with for warranty claims. And since this is a business, you are PAYING someone hourly or a salary to do all this crap.
        You did not understand. The company I work with IS the vendor and for us it's a piece of cake to source and deal with extremely complex tasks like bolting this thing into a metal box or something and sourcing/testing RAM and a sata cable.

        We have been sourcing and deploying stuff like PCEngines networking things for various jobs too.

        I can concede that the lack of casing is a bit annoying but if they do provide a half-decent case for it it's all set.

        Are you really suggesting that It's cheaper to pay someone to build a wonky one-off micro server, than it is to just buy a small ready made one?
        You have seen the prices of servers, kiddo? Yeah its much cheaper.

        Servers of the kind you are thinking of need to be much more reliable, have no downtime and all that.

        Small application servers like this don't need to. If failure is not an option, success becomes very expensive.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
          Guess what, kiddo?
          What's all this kiddo stuff anyways? You must be very angry and unhappy with yourself on the inside. Or a bad day at work maybe? FWIW I finished my masters in computer science in the early 90's, and yes my beard is gray. I guess I should be glad that you find my ideas so youthful and fresh.

          Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
          That's my actual job. The company I work with provides IT support to small companies that can't afford to pay a resident IT technician, and yes we do set up "micro servers" all the time.
          That's great. But this isn't about you. My brother in law mechanic built a custom transmission for his truck. Recommending that everyone else do the same is just as nonsensical as saying any small business should build their own custom microserver. It is genuinely surprising to me that you don't understand the design and integration process a business goes through when building computing environments, and the huge business advantage of buying a COTS server vs. building custom.

          Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
          You did not understand. The company I work with IS the vendor and for us it's a piece of cake to source and deal with extremely complex tasks like bolting this thing into a metal box or something and sourcing/testing RAM and a sata cable.
          Great, you do that. Meanwhile, the rest of the business world will continue buying small Xeon rack and tower servers for even the smallest and simplest tasks, because for them, it is the smarter cheaper choice.
          Last edited by torsionbar28; 11-30-2018, 06:15 PM.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by torsionbar28 View Post
            What's all this kiddo stuff anyways?
            This irrational belief that "the big boys use big toys".
            In the real world the big boys use what is most cost-effective. In many cases a normal PC tower or single board like PCEngines is reliable enough for the usecase and midrange or high end server hardware is NOT justified.

            You must be very angry and unhappy with yourself on the inside.
            Yeah, I already said I work in IT.

            FWIW I finished my masters in computer science in the early 90's, and yes my beard is gray. I guess I should be glad that you find my ideas so youthful and fresh.
            Growing old is automatic, growing up is not. You will be called "kiddo" even if you are old unless you grow up.

            And no, massively overspeccing your hardware is NOT a "youthful and fresh" idea.

            That's great. But this isn't about you.
            It isn't, my company is medium-sized and there are many others doing the same all over the world.

            My brother in law mechanic built a custom transmission for his truck.
            Not what I said. I said we have contracts with smaller companies that don't have an internal IT person to do these jobs and deploy mini-servers for applications accessible over the network.

            And yes, for small companies the difference between 500-2k euros (what such PC towers cost when purposed as mini-server) and 5-10k is significant.

            It is genuinely surprising to me that you don't understand the design and integration process a business goes through when building computing environments, and the huge business advantage of buying a COTS server vs. building custom.
            It's not surprising to me that with your limited mindset you can't understand that this is done only for large deployments in midsize and larger companies where the cost of the hardware is a rounding error and they have dozens of people in their internal IT department.

            And don't get me started on how much servers I've seen commissioned in large companies for retarded non-crucial shit that is deemed "important" by someone on the chair, that could have been served equally well by a VM in a "hyperconverged" setup (VMWare ESXi), and never ever see more than 10% load.
            Last edited by starshipeleven; 12-03-2018, 05:26 AM.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
              And no, massively overspeccing your hardware is NOT a "youthful and fresh" idea.
              The trick is knowing when it's actually worth the money to do so (i.e. foreseeing what management will decide to do in the next few years, maybe some guiding is involved ).

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              • #47
                @ starshipeleven; post #45--

                "You must be very angry and unhappy with yourself on the inside."

                "Yeah, I already said I work in IT."
                **********************************

                Kiddo, you need to find another line of work, and quickly.
                You're not all that important...you already said you work in IT, kiddo.

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by danmcgrew View Post
                  Kiddo, you need to find another line of work, and quickly.
                  When you are specialized and with decades of experience in a field you find yourself in the fun situation of choosing between a work you don't like but pays enough for your family vs a work you might like better but will pay you jackshit as you have 0 experience, assuming you can actually get hired at all as a middle-aged white male with no experience.

                  This is true in general for most jobs. Since you are still young, make sure you do a decent career choice when you can still do it, as you will NOT be able to back down later.

                  You're not all that important...you already said you work in IT, kiddo.
                  You must be new, that repetition was to emphasize how he did not know the common stereotype of IT jobs, (being angry at people and unhappy inside) so he was really not what he was posing to be.

                  Also, please learn to use Quote button.

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                  • #49
                    @ starshipeleven, post #48--

                    You're not all that important...you already said you work in IT, kiddo.


                    "I would like to take you seriously, but to do so would affront your intelligence."--William F. Buckley, Jr.

                    *************************

                    "...Also, please learn to use Quote button." (You mean, like I did not, right here?)

                    One's thinking that one can tell someone else how to write (you've already demonstrated that you are not due the benefit of the doubt; in your case, this was NOT a suggestion) is confirmation of a (heretofore suspected) deep-seated pathology...as is the use of the diminutive form when addressing others, especially when those 'others' are, very obviously, imminently more qualified than oneself, and one's intellectual superiors.

                    “I well understand the gentleman’s desire to speak on; ‬he needs the practice badly."--Winston Churchill
                    "Never argue with a fool; he will drag you down to his level and then beat you with experience."--The Fool's Law

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                    • #50
                      Also, please learn to use Quote button." [/I][/B](You mean, like I did not, right here?)
                      No you didn't. You managed to even fail to use the "mention function" of vbullettin properly.

                      let me show you how it works, danmcgrew is good, @ danmcgrew is bad

                      Note how the former one is green and a link, the latter is not. Also note that you got a different mail notification for this post.

                      as is the use of the diminutive form when addressing others, especially when those 'others' are, very obviously, imminently more qualified than oneself, and one's intellectual superiors.
                      I'd like to see the reasoning that makes you conclude that torsionbar28 is an Ubermensh.
                      And yes, I know you will have to google what that is.

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