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Originally posted by wizard69 View PostYou completely missed the point of my post!
If you are only concerned with running a single application then a modern operating system isnt of any value at all to you.
No consider a modern highly threaded app like Eclipse that most certainly benefits from more cores over a high click rate.
And no, I don't see why an IDE should need any significant amount of processing power. It's a glorified text editor with auxiliary package manager or XML/similar parser functionality.
The OS works in conjunction with Java too spread the processes and threads over many cores to give the user good performance.
It may do something very rudimentary, yes, if you use pre-made libs/frameworks that are multi-threaded, but you can use libraries/frameworks on any language.
Multi-threading happens when the programmer lays out a project where his program splits up itself in multiple threads where each does stuff on its own. This division must happen at the logic level, on the drawing board, you can't just take a blob and split it brutally.
Multi-threading requires man-hours and skill. It is not granted by a framework unless you are doing something with 0 innovation in it (the nth "great webapplication for company accounting" for example) where you can just take a framework that is multi-threaded already and assemble the programming equivalent of Lego blocks to create your program.
In a nut shell the operating system is extremely important in leveraging those cores and conversely the cores enable modern OS features.
If the applications don't multi-thread themselves, there is little the OS can do. Which is my point.
Again you are hung up on the idea that consummers use a singke program and that is it. On the other hand reality is far different. Even a person surfing the net in a browser may have other apps running these days, a streamming app perhaps, most likely an E-mail app and whatever else. The days of DOS are far behind us!!!
the way many people run games they would be just as well off with a modern version of DOS.
The only reason they started making multi-core CPUs is because they could not make faster single-core ones. So no, using only a single core would severely limit the processing power the game has access to.
Multithreading is NOT the same thing as multitasking. Multitasking is easy, as it is dealt with by the OS. Multithreading is hard, as it requires the program itself to split itself up in many smaller "programlets" that are dealt with as they were separate programs in a multitasking OS.
A failed attempt at paralleling an app means nothing in the context of todays user where multiple apps in use and highly threaded apps exist. Even a modern web browser beƱefits highly from cores with the corresponding OS suppport.
Ask yourself why the Apple phones/tablets have the CPUs with best IPC (instructions per clock, it's a measure of how powerful is the processor in executing single-thread programs), or why Intel is still doing their damn best to provide consumer hardware that has the best IPC possible.Last edited by starshipeleven; 07 February 2018, 05:13 PM.
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Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post... why Intel is still doing their damn best to provide consumer hardware that has the best IPC possible.
I don't know what is your definition of consumer hardware, as everything is consumer hardware to me
Ask Michael how much thousands of kilowatts he use per month to run all these benchmarks, just because of all of that IPC
Not only that Intel was ignorant, but these consumers were even more ignorant... top notch IPC core they wanna OC even more, for a couple percent boost in performance, power usage doubling - what kind of sport that is?
At the end we get Meltdown/Spectre just because that consumer world is so crazy and wanna perf no matter whatLast edited by dungeon; 07 February 2018, 06:03 PM.
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Originally posted by schmidtbag View PostThough I personally don't know of any SoCs that include both RAM and storage (not even EEPROM or CMOS), I'm pretty sure there are a handful of ARM SoCs that have embedded RAM, such as some OMAP and Exynos products. For example, take a look at the ODRIOD-XU4. This platform has 2GB of RAM, but there aren't any chips on the board. There are other products by Hardkernel (like the ODROID-C2) which do explicitly point out their RAM chips, so it's not like the manufacturer was being negligent or lazy.
I guess Samsung can get away with it.
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Originally posted by dungeon View PostBecause Intel was ignorant and invented ventilators to PC decades ago, as higher IPC core means power going to the roof
I don't know what is your definition of consumer hardware, as everything is consumer hardware to me
Not only that Intel was ignorant, but these consumers were even more ignorant... top notch IPC core they wanna OC even more
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Originally posted by wizard69 View Post
Generally a System On Chip is everything excluding RAM and secondary storage. The vast majority of SoC that have RAM included do so as multi chip modules of one sort or another. Note that multi chip modules dont always use SoC in their implementation.
By the way i dont think we are far away from seeing multi chip modules implementing all of the system RAM within the module. That is a APU style SoC wired directly to 8 or 16 GB of RAM (HBM) in a multi chip module. This wouldnt be much different than some of todays GPUs.
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Originally posted by tildearrow View PostI have a question. Why are "enthusiast" consumer processors (like the 7980XE) clocked higher than high-core-count server/workstation processors?
In the data center it counts, because you have thousands of CPUs and perf/watt is crucial for running 24/7... cost savings add up.
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Originally posted by wizard69 View PostThis is so true for many server duties. But modern operating systems are also well supported by multiple cores. It might be hard for the younger members to understand just how bad it was to run a modern operating system on a single core machine. The first dual chip machines (two cores) had a huge impact on OS usability be that OS is Windows, Linux or MacOS. Core literally where a turning point for anybody using an OS beyong the trivial.
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