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Librecore: Aiming To Be A Better Libre Spin Of Coreboot

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Michael View Post

    Happy to change that sentence to avoid confusion.

    Is there any other information aside from the Git repository or the one-page website? Or a list of who "us" is in terms of like the official leads? The way Pearson portrayed it in the emails to me today made it sound like he had some authority within the project.
    Well that would be nice to fix yes thanks. While what you said could well be true for some members it isn't the rule for all that made them start the project, everyone has their own motivations. Many are more technically driven than politically. We have many different technical goals such as being less x86 orientated.

    Also no Pearson isn't an authority as it isn't his project; Rather he is a component of the current authority just as much as I am. As we are a new community, and in a community there need not be an ultimate authority. Though I can appreciate were your confusion may have come from.

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    • #22
      Librecore is a fork of coreboot. It is not a build system. Libreboot has a very mature and complex build system which takes coreboot (soon librecore, instead) as upstream, provides any deblobbing and extra patches needed, and integrates a payload alongside that, with utilities, providing ROM images that people can flash, along with user-focused documentation. We go above and beyond by integrating all of the various software upstreams needed, to provide people with something usable and user-friendly. Librecore is developer-oriented and not targeted at end users.

      And that's fine. It's the most efficient way to do things. Libreboot is a "coreboot distribution" - soon to be a "librecore distribution", much like Debian is a GNU+Linux distribution. Development goes more smoothly with upstreams, and downstreams integrating everything.

      Librecore on its own is not useful for non-technical users, since it is just coreboot but taken in a new direction. Libreboot is still needed, and the project is still very much active. All of the core developers and founding members of the project (myself included) are involved, and we are still working to support more hardware as always.

      Regarding your comment about "packing your bags":

      We welcome forks. This means that we get more contributors to the project, by merging from other projects.

      We welcome Librecore and wholeheartedly endorse it. They are already going above and beyond what we were able to do with the limited and bureaucratic leadership in coreboot, which we had to work around, especially when coreboot became more and more corrupted by Intel/AMD (think FSP/PI). With Librecore, we can now ignore Coreboot entirely since it has attracted (from what I can tell) all of the libre-focused coreboot hackers. Librecore and Coreboot also still seem to share patches back and forth, so we can always jump back to coreboot (or fork Librecore) in the future, if necessary.

      So for this reason, I strongly welcome Phoronix's article. If it gets more developers interested in Librecore, that benefits them and also us in Libreboot.

      Regarding your "nuclear blast" comment:

      Nothing has changed at all in the last few months except our GNU affilation. The vast majority of the work on Libreboot was done outside of GNU's auspices, before it joined GNU in 14 May 2016. 1 major release was done between that time, and LIbreboot's departure from GNU. We were not deeply integrated with GNU at all and still ran our own infrastructure with our own community.

      We are still attracting developers as before, and all of LIbreboot's core developers were supportive of our decisions. One of them is now also cutting ties with FSF and funding their own research, through their own non-profit association, instead of relying on FSF funding. The "drama" created by leaving GNU was a vocal minority of commentators on Reddit, Slashdot, 4chan and reddit. None of them were involved in Libreboot at all, be it development or as end users. Most of them just wanted to have some fun with all the chaos that ensued.

      In reality, I received north of 100 emails shortly after leaving GNU, all of which were supportive of us in the Libreboot development team. I still receive such emails to this day, saying how leaving GNU was the right thing to do, and that our treatment by FSF/GNU was terrible.

      The nuke landed in 55 Franklin Street, 5th Floor, Boston, MA 02110, USA. Libreboot was mostly unscathed.

      We are near to a new Libreboot release, which, with the way things are currently doing, will be released either before February or between February 1-3, before my FOSDEM talk which I am presenting Libreboot in, for FOSDEM 2017.

      Libreboot is as strong as ever, and continues to expand despite heavy opposition from some members of the community over recent decisions.

      The wording of the Phoronix article about Librecore is especially dubious. We fully endorse Librecore and are integrating it into Libreboot, to replace Coreboot. This will greatly simplify maintenance on our end, and they are also much better at handling patches and code review than coreboot, while having the same freedom philosophy and focus as Libreboot. From what I can tell, Librecore is a perfect partner for the Libreboot project.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by funfunctor View Post

        Well that would be nice to fix yes thanks. While what you said could well be true for some members it isn't the rule for all that made them start the project, everyone has their own motivations. Many are more technically driven than politically. We have many different technical goals such as being less x86 orientated.

        Also no Pearson isn't an authority as it isn't his project; Rather he is a component of the current authority just as much as I am. As we are a new community, and in a community there need not be an ultimate authority. Though I can appreciate were your confusion may have come from.
        Thanks for the clarifications, had adjusted that first paragraph to try to avoid any confusion. If there's anything else let me know or whenever other interesting librecore news always welcome to ping me.
        Michael Larabel
        https://www.michaellarabel.com/

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        • #24
          The nuke landed in 55 Franklin Street, 5th Floor, Boston, MA 02110, USA. Libreboot was mostly unscathed.
          I think most would beg to differ. Ignoring the mountain of negative emails because you received 100 positive emails doesn't seem like a reasonable way to measure your actions. It's also hard to side with you when you had burden of proof and provided nothing. I digress though and both methods of thinking are fallacious, synonymous to argumentum ad populum.

          You might have missed my first question which was your intention concerning paying the remaining contract. You claim that there's a big difference between inability to pay and refusal to pay. Either way, you're not upholding the payment end of the contract, you're just less morally guilty when you're unable to pay.

          I would also like to point out, that so far Raptor Engineering has not fixed the bug on KGPE-D16 where above 128GiB RAM becomes unstable to the point of being unusable. Only up to 128GiB works. This is less than what the contract suggests. They also released source code that was broken; memory initialization was broken on most memory modules. It took 6 months after the initial release of the KGPE-D16 source code for them to make memory initialization work, and even now raminit only works with a few modules. This is in addition to other bugs which they haven't fixed.
          You claim they didn't fulfill their work while the other party claims they went above and beyond to finish the work. Again Leah, you're met with burden of proof. Why not post to a bug report or show some deterministic data that other people can also see?

          I also have IRC logs of private conversations between me and Timothy, where he states that he's willing to let the free/libre hardware movement crash and burn. This was before the dispute that happened today regarding payment
          Well since you've seem to have the logs, why not post them so everyone else can also see the same thing you do? If they're so clear cut, you have no reason to not post them since you've already summarized them in your view for us.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by computerquip View Post
            I think most would beg to differ. Ignoring the mountain of negative emails because you received 100 positive emails doesn't seem like a reasonable way to measure your actions. It's also hard to side with you when you had burden of proof and provided nothing. I digress though and both methods of thinking are fallacious, synonymous to argumentum ad populum.
            Uh. I provided a written statement from the FSF's former RYF coordinator, who left the FSF shortly before the incident.



            You claim they didn't fulfill their work while the other party claims they went above and beyond to finish the work. Again Leah, you're met with burden of proof. Why not post to a bug report or show some deterministic data that other people can also see?
            The proof is the libreboot site. Download D16 ROM, flash it onto a D16 with 256GiB RAM and tell me whether it works reliably for you.

            Of course, we could submit a bug report in libreboot for an upstream issue. I ask: why?

            Well since you've seem to have the logs, why not post them so everyone else can also see the same thing you do? If they're so clear cut, you have no reason to not post them since you've already summarized them in your view for us.
            I'm not stupid enough to post private correspondence between me and Timothy on Phoronix. What do you take me for?

            I wasn't born yesterday. I'll use them if I need to. There is also no way for me to prove that the logs are genuine anyway.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by libreleah View Post
              I did not pay the KCMA-D8 contract which was 15k... I was actually *unable* to pay.
              Quoted for posterity.

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              • #27
                Great thing, wishing best of luck to Librecore guys. After Talos, this is the only hope to get decent open firmwares, even if recent hardware is locked down.

                -------------

                Whoa, whoa, whoa did I see right? Did the biggest troll of the last decade post this thread? Only on Phoronix we can have this, only on Phoronix. Come my friends, and bring popcorn.

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                • #28
                  every few years i look at coreboot list of supported boards and see nothing contemporary, so i unable to use it and leave for another couple of years. and according to libreboot people, solution is to support even less boards? that is funny

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by pal666 View Post
                    every few years i look at coreboot list of supported boards and see nothing contemporary, so i unable to use it and leave for another couple of years. and according to libreboot people, solution is to support even less boards? that is funny
                    You might be interested to check again later this year, because at least there's this effort picking up again:



                    Purism makes premium phones, laptops, mini PCs and servers running free software on PureOS. Purism products respect people's privacy and freedom while protecting their security.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by kiddo View Post

                      You might be interested to check again later this year, because at least there's this effort picking up again:

                      https://puri.sm/posts/diving-back-in...t-development/

                      https://puri.sm/posts/librem-13-core...nuary-12-2017/
                      Very interesting to read. Thanks for the links!

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