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When will ARM motherboards be available?

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  • Thpn
    started a topic When will ARM motherboards be available?

    When will ARM motherboards be available?

    When will motherboards based on ARM processors be available?

    My use is for standard corporate desktops. Required applications for users in this small business are Firefox, OpenOffice and IM. Decent graphics will be necessary, in order to support streaming media. I'm not talking anything special here, just your basic desktop. In other words, Ubuntu on ARM should be perfect.

    The IA architecture is three decades old and showing its age. With Google and Ubuntu joining Debian as active development partners for the ARM platform, this seems to be the direction to look for the next decade. I even read a journalist speculate that Apple would move Mac to ARM.

    Unfortunately, there's nothing in the technical or even trade press to answer my question. Can anyone provide any insight as to when I'll be able to buy an ARM-based motherboard through the online retail channel to build desktop machines? What are the potential pitfalls of being an early adopter?

  • artivision
    replied
    Originally posted by elanthis View Post
    They're not going to beat any modern amd64 based chip for some time. A 2ghz ARM is nowhere near comparable to a SandyBridge or even a Bulldozer in terms of raw power. Aside from just the difference in interconnects (say, built in triple channel DDR3-1866 and PCI-X 2.1), the branch prediction, SIMD units, and so on are just not there in the ARM chips. Gigahertz just don't matter that much (try comparing a 2.2ghz i7 to a 3.4ghz Bulldozer, for instance).

    Power consumption will be lower, and performance per Watt may even still be way better, but raw performance will not be.
    ?????? Cisc-simd is not better than Risc-mimd, ARM has faster FPU. The problem is that ARM runs 8integer32bit+8float32bit wile AVX runs 4complexInteger64bit(like8simple64)+16float32bit(8 float64bit). AVX is almost 2 times faster/thread but this will change with ARM-V8 and they will be equal. Second the issue is not ARM but x86-Cisc replacement. Read my previous post with Arm and Mips. Loongson3C has 16cores with 32integer64bit+32float64bit per core, this equals 64coreAVX and 128coreAVX in streamProc only with 20W and 3x the efficiency of an ARM plus emulation instructions, so I prefer a dual-Mips in my phone. Third there are many others like PCMOS(probabilistic) or NISC-accelerators like ZMS40 that accelerates an ARM by 4times. It is over for Intel, Cisc exist only because it was difficult to emulate it but that is in the past. Intel-Microsoft will not close any more knowledge any more. I run Linux-Wine-Winetricks in any of my Computers, even ARM-QEmu-Wine, even to my quadcoreMips Chinese Laptop.

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  • elanthis
    replied
    Originally posted by DeepDayze View Post
    Hopefully we can see some new 64 bit ARM chips in somewhat higher clock speeds (2GHz or so) in a quad-core package. Such a chip can easily beat the x86 arch in speed and be much more power efficient so these can be made into small formfactor desktop PC's or even media centers.
    They're not going to beat any modern amd64 based chip for some time. A 2ghz ARM is nowhere near comparable to a SandyBridge or even a Bulldozer in terms of raw power. Aside from just the difference in interconnects (say, built in triple channel DDR3-1866 and PCI-X 2.1), the branch prediction, SIMD units, and so on are just not there in the ARM chips. Gigahertz just don't matter that much (try comparing a 2.2ghz i7 to a 3.4ghz Bulldozer, for instance).

    Power consumption will be lower, and performance per Watt may even still be way better, but raw performance will not be.

    Leave a comment:


  • artivision
    replied
    First of all ARM is as strong as Atom: Atom=2.4dmips/mhz ArmA8=2dmips/mhz ArmA9=2.5dmips/mhz. All previous CPUs have half the procPower of a SandyBridge/mhz. Arm28nm goes up to 3GHz and has Neon acceleration for GPUs (1core=48gflops/GHz). Second, Arm has A7core which is 5 times smaller than A9 and 20 times smaller than Atom, this will lead in 20-40core CPUs till end 2012, plus Arm has V8-64bit. Third, Cisc does not mean complex instructions and Risc does not mean simple ones. The first letter C or R refers to the relations of the instructions. Cisc=Complex relations wile Risc=family relations. This means that Risc can run many instruction by one unit wile Cisc can't. Risc run different instructions by one unit wile Cisc needs different units: float to fpu and integer to alu and else to else. Risc run them with the same way (like FMAC) wile Cisc have different ways. Cisc will never be Risc and Cisc does not decode anything in Risc mode, that's a common error. Risc will always be 40 times better in performance per watt and per dollar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loongson This CPU in L3C part has 1instructionTflop or 12streamTflops per 20W plus emulation and 3D instructions.

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  • zeealpal
    replied
    Originally posted by Adarion View Post
    GHz per Watt doesn't make much sense.
    Remember AMD's quantispeed arch/rating?

    And here you are comparing RISC vs. CISC design. This is too much difference for a GHz per W comparison.
    Well it does, because I was showing (roughly) the comparison in terms of GHz available to each architecture by TDP, but I also mentioned the differences in the architecture performances; The Quad Core ARM comparing to and old Core Duo Intel in performance (Like 3 architectures old if you do CoreDuo -> Core 2 Duo -> First i series (Nehalem etc...) -> Sandy Bridge. Anyhow someone had asked about it, so I gave one answer.

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  • Adarion
    replied
    GHz per Watt doesn't make much sense.
    Remember AMD's quantispeed arch/rating?

    And here you are comparing RISC vs. CISC design. This is too much difference for a GHz per W comparison.

    Leave a comment:


  • zeealpal
    replied
    Probably inaccurate

    Here is a very rough comparison of Core Count/GHz.

    An Intel Core i7-980X Extreme Edition Gulftown (32 nm) 3.333 GHz @ 6 Cores 130 W TDP

    I could not find much info on TDP for a 1.5GHz Dual Core ARM CPU (Qualcomm SCorpion was my example) however I found a few sites stating ARM CPU's rarely go over 2W at fullload, so I will take a maximum of 4 W for 1.5Ghz Dual Core (This includes the GPU as well :P).

    For Intel CPU, Watt/GHz = 130 / (6 * 3.333) = 6.5 W/GHz = 0.154 GHz/W

    For ARM CPU, Max Watt/GHz = 4 / (1.5 * 2) = 1.3 W/GHz = 0.769 GHz/W

    ARM = ~ 5x GHz/W of Intel x86.

    So for 130 Watts, Intel has total: 20 GHz, ARM has 99.97 GHz

    However, nVidias new Quad Core ARM SoC (4 Core) will preform roughly the same as a Intel CoreDuo (2 Core), both in the region of 2-2.5 GHz.

    However, the Core Duo architecture was improved on a fair bit in terms of Performance/GHz, and then the first i3/i5/i7 were a a good step up from that, and then Sandy Bridge, and now Ivy Bridge soon are steps above that again in terms of performance/Ghz . So a Quad Core ARM is level to a Core Duo, meaning it could not get anywhere near a new Intel Series chip, and the question is whether at the same TDP, it could outpreform it or not?

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  • DeepDayze
    replied
    Originally posted by deanjo View Post
    What I would love to see is how many cores and at what speed an ARM processor could pull off within the same power envelope as an x86 chip.
    I would like to see something like this too

    Leave a comment:


  • marakaid
    replied
    Maybe this thing is what you want (approximately) :

    http://blog.laptopmag.com/usb-stick-...ndroid-station

    Leave a comment:


  • deanjo
    replied
    Originally posted by DeepDayze View Post
    Hopefully we can see some new 64 bit ARM chips in somewhat higher clock speeds (2GHz or so) in a quad-core package.
    What I would love to see is how many cores and at what speed an ARM processor could pull off within the same power envelope as an x86 chip.

    Leave a comment:

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