LVFS Exploring Alternate, Open-Source Firmware For Capable End-Of-Life Devices

[oiaohm]

If this requires the vendors' blessing this idea is dead in the water.

Please note note 100 percent dead in the water. There are coreboot support on different hardware were the vendor did provide it near or at the end of life.

Not all vendors are jackass when hardware go end of life.

[skeevy420]

While it would be great, it'll probably never happen (at least universally).

Hope I'm wrong on that point, though.

Companies have too much invested in our throwaway society.

I'm frankly amazed Right to Repair actually seems to be gaining traction - although I'm definitely happy to see that it is.

Honestly, opening up firmware options for EOL hardware would be the next logical extension to Right to Repair.

If anything, this needs to be added to the Right to Repair talks. Unavailable to consumer proprietary parts, designed to fail and be replaced, etc is an issue that plagues everything from budget retailer bicycles to premium vehicle brands and everything in between.

Another problem that is the low quality of parts available when you can actually find parts to repair what's broke. I'll be fixing the same part on my mower for the 4th time in a day or so -- the steering gear. The factory gear was worth-a-shit and lasted 8 or 10 years whereas the replacement will work from somewhere between a single turn to a couple of seasons. You can feel the weight difference between the factory gear and replacement ones so you know you're installing crap. But there is no other choice so crap it is. Even the OEM John Deere gear is lightweight crap -- it's like they all come out of the same factory and get different packaging. It'd be nice if there were standards that could make it so (Captain Jean-Luc Picard, USS Enterprise) I didn't get stuck with shitty turning gears time and time again from every single brand.

But you're right, they do have a lot invested in this. Just look at phones -- locked bootloaders and update schedules literally make them planned-for throwaway devices. Apple isn't any better. At least "unlocked bootloader" and "alternate operating system" can be official, supported things on Androids.

Frankly, this needs to gain a lot of traction from an ecological standpoint. Resources are finite. One time use and throwaway is just dumb and we deserve global warming and all the negatives of climate change. And a rant about yearly car models -- why the fuck do we need a new Camaro or Accord or Ram every year?

[jochendemuth]

While it would be great, it'll probably never happen (at least universally).

Hope I'm wrong on that point, though.

Companies have too much invested in our throwaway society.

I'm frankly amazed Right to Repair actually seems to be gaining traction - although I'm definitely happy to see that it is.

Honestly, opening up firmware options for EOL hardware would be the next logical extension to Right to Repair.

It's not that companies have "invested" in throwaway society - it's baked into the business models. Many manufacturers rely on customers upgrading products frequently for their margins. Imagine the market evaluation of Apple if they officially agreed to this idea and participated in this.

"Hypothetically, if a legal entity (like the LVFS) started distributing Coreboot firmware security updates for EOL hardware like the ThinkPad X220 (with the vendors blessing) how does that feel? You'd have to explicitly opt-in and it would be clear all OEM warranty is gone."

If this requires the vendors' blessing this idea is dead in the water.

[opengears]

Also let's not forget there are other alternatives to coreboot - Libreboot for example! https://libreboot.org/

[GI_Jack]

Dangerous in its own right. While I think its rad coreboot exists, I'd hate to really call it production quality on third party hardware.

I cannot imagine that 3rd party firmware is tested to spec as rigidly or containing all the features of 1st party vendor firmware, again, at spec, reliably.

Unless of course you already have coreboot-based firmware, and they are supplying OEM-tested coreboot binaries.

[CochainComplex]

Yeah, it'd require changes in copyright and patent law in every country that adopted such right to repair. Right now, in the US this has many landmines both in copyright and patent law. I don't really hold a lot of hope the current legislation in Congress will adequately address repair rights. There's too much "Stick it to Big Tech" political rhetoric and not enough thoughtful consideration of the real issues in repair work, especially since the companies that really stand to lose here aren't Apple, Amazon, Google, et al. It's Ford, John Deere, GM, Chrysler, Caterpillar, etc. They're the traditional bastions of Main Street US political influence - even though farmers currently despise John Deere which is what's driving the grass roots drive for right-to-repair laws in the US Midwest. Copyright and patent law, which is what John Deere is using to beat farmers over the head with repair lawsuits, can only be addressed at the federal level rather than state level.

on the otherhand - luckily Europe is not as strict and has already a "Right to Repair law" valid in whole Europe. EU Law is above memberstate law. Thats why for companies EU is one big singlemarket which has an unified legislation when it comes to product and consumer rights. Doesnt matter if you want to sell a product in Germany or Italy you have to obey the same rules.

I know the common US citizen thinks EU is 50 million citizens and Rome is just a suburb of Paris ;P

...but as a reminder EU-27 has 447,0 Million inhabitants - thats an equal to US, Canada and half Mexico.

A lot of the named Big Tech Companies already have to behave* ...at least here And as part of green movement wave, ewaste will be tackled even further.

*not as much as they should but its getting better

[CochainComplex]

This is a great idea - closed software should be handled similarly to patents after a while it expires and must be open for/to everyone.

[stormcrow]

You would also need a royalty-free licence for all 'intellectual property' used by the hardware. There is no point in having the documentation if you can't distribute copies of software which might also include third-party bugfixes or changes.

Yeah, it'd require changes in copyright and patent law in every country that adopted such right to repair. Right now, in the US this has many landmines both in copyright and patent law. I don't really hold a lot of hope the current legislation in Congress will adequately address repair rights. There's too much "Stick it to Big Tech" political rhetoric and not enough thoughtful consideration of the real issues in repair work, especially since the companies that really stand to lose here aren't Apple, Amazon, Google, et al. It's Ford, John Deere, GM, Chrysler, Caterpillar, etc. They're the traditional bastions of Main Street US political influence - even though farmers currently despise John Deere which is what's driving the grass roots drive for right-to-repair laws in the US Midwest. Copyright and patent law, which is what John Deere is using to beat farmers over the head with repair lawsuits, can only be addressed at the federal level rather than state level.

[Quackdoc]

While it would be great, it'll probably never happen (at least universally).

Hope I'm wrong on that point, though.

Companies have too much invested in our throwaway society.

I'm frankly amazed Right to Repair actually seems to be gaining traction - although I'm definitely happy to see that it is.

Honestly, opening up firmware options for EOL hardware would be the next logical extension to Right to Repair.

I don't think it will be much of an issue for most older laptops

[Paradigm Shifter]

While it would be great, it'll probably never happen (at least universally).

Hope I'm wrong on that point, though.

Companies have too much invested in our throwaway society.

I'm frankly amazed Right to Repair actually seems to be gaining traction - although I'm definitely happy to see that it is.

Honestly, opening up firmware options for EOL hardware would be the next logical extension to Right to Repair.