LVFS Exploring Alternate, Open-Source Firmware For Capable End-Of-Life Devices

[CochainComplex]

Yeah, it'd require changes in copyright and patent law in every country that adopted such right to repair. Right now, in the US this has many landmines both in copyright and patent law. I don't really hold a lot of hope the current legislation in Congress will adequately address repair rights. There's too much "Stick it to Big Tech" political rhetoric and not enough thoughtful consideration of the real issues in repair work, especially since the companies that really stand to lose here aren't Apple, Amazon, Google, et al. It's Ford, John Deere, GM, Chrysler, Caterpillar, etc. They're the traditional bastions of Main Street US political influence - even though farmers currently despise John Deere which is what's driving the grass roots drive for right-to-repair laws in the US Midwest. Copyright and patent law, which is what John Deere is using to beat farmers over the head with repair lawsuits, can only be addressed at the federal level rather than state level.

on the otherhand - luckily Europe is not as strict and has already a "Right to Repair law" valid in whole Europe. EU Law is above memberstate law. Thats why for companies EU is one big singlemarket which has an unified legislation when it comes to product and consumer rights. Doesnt matter if you want to sell a product in Germany or Italy you have to obey the same rules.

I know the common US citizen thinks EU is 50 million citizens and Rome is just a suburb of Paris ;P

...but as a reminder EU-27 has 447,0 Million inhabitants - thats an equal to US, Canada and half Mexico.

A lot of the named Big Tech Companies already have to behave* ...at least here And as part of green movement wave, ewaste will be tackled even further.

*not as much as they should but its getting better

[GI_Jack]

Dangerous in its own right. While I think its rad coreboot exists, I'd hate to really call it production quality on third party hardware.

I cannot imagine that 3rd party firmware is tested to spec as rigidly or containing all the features of 1st party vendor firmware, again, at spec, reliably.

Unless of course you already have coreboot-based firmware, and they are supplying OEM-tested coreboot binaries.

[opengears]

Also let's not forget there are other alternatives to coreboot - Libreboot for example! https://libreboot.org/

[jochendemuth]

While it would be great, it'll probably never happen (at least universally).

Hope I'm wrong on that point, though.

Companies have too much invested in our throwaway society.

I'm frankly amazed Right to Repair actually seems to be gaining traction - although I'm definitely happy to see that it is.

Honestly, opening up firmware options for EOL hardware would be the next logical extension to Right to Repair.

It's not that companies have "invested" in throwaway society - it's baked into the business models. Many manufacturers rely on customers upgrading products frequently for their margins. Imagine the market evaluation of Apple if they officially agreed to this idea and participated in this.

"Hypothetically, if a legal entity (like the LVFS) started distributing Coreboot firmware security updates for EOL hardware like the ThinkPad X220 (with the vendors blessing) how does that feel? You'd have to explicitly opt-in and it would be clear all OEM warranty is gone."

If this requires the vendors' blessing this idea is dead in the water.

[skeevy420]

While it would be great, it'll probably never happen (at least universally).

Hope I'm wrong on that point, though.

Companies have too much invested in our throwaway society.

I'm frankly amazed Right to Repair actually seems to be gaining traction - although I'm definitely happy to see that it is.

Honestly, opening up firmware options for EOL hardware would be the next logical extension to Right to Repair.

If anything, this needs to be added to the Right to Repair talks. Unavailable to consumer proprietary parts, designed to fail and be replaced, etc is an issue that plagues everything from budget retailer bicycles to premium vehicle brands and everything in between.

Another problem that is the low quality of parts available when you can actually find parts to repair what's broke. I'll be fixing the same part on my mower for the 4th time in a day or so -- the steering gear. The factory gear was worth-a-shit and lasted 8 or 10 years whereas the replacement will work from somewhere between a single turn to a couple of seasons. You can feel the weight difference between the factory gear and replacement ones so you know you're installing crap. But there is no other choice so crap it is. Even the OEM John Deere gear is lightweight crap -- it's like they all come out of the same factory and get different packaging. It'd be nice if there were standards that could make it so (Captain Jean-Luc Picard, USS Enterprise) I didn't get stuck with shitty turning gears time and time again from every single brand.

But you're right, they do have a lot invested in this. Just look at phones -- locked bootloaders and update schedules literally make them planned-for throwaway devices. Apple isn't any better. At least "unlocked bootloader" and "alternate operating system" can be official, supported things on Androids.

Frankly, this needs to gain a lot of traction from an ecological standpoint. Resources are finite. One time use and throwaway is just dumb and we deserve global warming and all the negatives of climate change. And a rant about yearly car models -- why the fuck do we need a new Camaro or Accord or Ram every year?

[oiaohm]

If this requires the vendors' blessing this idea is dead in the water.

Please note note 100 percent dead in the water. There are coreboot support on different hardware were the vendor did provide it near or at the end of life.

Not all vendors are jackass when hardware go end of life.

[CochainComplex]

.....And a rant about yearly car models -- why the fuck do we need a new Camaro or Accord or Ram every year?

Thats why EU has initiated this: (google translated)
https://www-stvo-de.translate.goog/7..._x_tr_pto=wapp
https://www-handwerksblatt-de.transl..._x_tr_pto=wapp


But Replacementpart quality and price! is the next upcoming issue. e.g. Siemens (washing machine) now shows a sparepartshop on their website. Lists all available spareparts for the queried model but they make it rather difficult to find a service manual. Just explosion drawings - but obviously excerpts of service manuals. And prices are quite "highish".

Ive got the impression they want to make you suffer trying to fix your washingmachine for 50€ instead of buying a new one for 10x the price.

But its heading in a good direction.


Btw...I don't want to sound offensive - but after watching a couple of episodes of Louis Rossman in hearings spreading the word, it is mostly republicans chipping in for Big Tech. Its quite a baffling paradox that the same Farmers suffering under John Dears scheme will never vote for democrats because its "socialism". Almost splendid how the GOP is keeping this fear alive...however.

[CochainComplex]

Not all vendors are jackass when hardware go end of life.

true but pricing pressure forces a lot of the competitors to be one.

[Slartifartblast]

If you stop providing updates to software and firmware for a device then I think as others have said it's a great idea that you forfeit any copyright or patent control over that said device however I'd expect all sorts of legal trickery to subvert this by claiming portions of the code are still used in other devices. Tough luck I say, reduce landfill.

[jochendemuth]

Please note note 100 percent dead in the water. There are coreboot support on different hardware were the vendor did provide it near or at the end of life.

Not all vendors are jackass when hardware go end of life.

Support for multiple generations of products requires resources that could be used for innovation. Designing products to support "right-to-repair" requires resources that could be used to innovate along different paths.
At this point we start seeing a split of vendors - the ones that build obsolescence into their products (e.g. by locking them down) slightly veiled with hinting at increased security and the ones that see the right-to-repair as a competitive differentiator to the first class.
The success of the second class of vendors will depend on customer choices (voting with wallets).

I hope this discussion/initiative opens up a viable path for vendors to compete based on rights-to-repair. I'll be watching this space...