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PCIe 6.0 Specification Released With 64 GT/s Transfer Speeds

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  • #41
    Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
    AMD high end dGPU cards are only PCIe 4.0 x8 not x16 even that they take x16 slot.
    This is demonstrably false. It's only the RX 5500 and below, which are x8. In the 6000 series, it's the RX 6600 that's x8, while the RX 6500 is x4.

    Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
    Even with Nvidia 16x PCIe 4.0 cards there is to the point that there is no difference performance to be gained from faster.
    This is also demonstrably false.

    Since all your conclusions are based on faulty data, I can see how you arrive at such ridiculous conclusions. Troll harder, next time.

    Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
    Basically PCIe bandwidth is expanding faster than dgpus can use it question is by how much.
    I'll grant you this. There was no justification for Intel adding PCIe 5.0 x16 to Alder Lake. That's why I didn't believe they'd really do it.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by coder View Post
      I'll grant you this. There was no justification for Intel adding PCIe 5.0 x16 to Alder Lake. That's why I didn't believe they'd really do it.
      https://www.pcmag.com/news/alder-lak...ative-platform

      Intel did provide a split PCIe 5.0 x8 times 2 as a motherboard maker option. PCIe 5.0 x16 does make sense for particular accelerators dgpus is not one of them.

      Originally posted by coder View Post
      This is demonstrably false. It's only the RX 5500 and below, which are x8. In the 6000 series, it's the RX 6600 that's x8, while the RX 6500 is x4
      No what I said is demonstrably true. Because AMD motherboards if the PCIe 4.0 it frame support bifurcation. So you have a 16x Pcie 4.0 slot you add another card and it comes a 8x slot. Even the highest end AMD model of dgpu in PCIe 4.0 x8 slot does not alter performance. So yes its a PCIe 4.0 x16 but its really not using that bandwidth over half the bandwidth is not being used..

      I was talking as in PCIe 4.0 x8 in bandwidth not it wired up connections on card. Of course the AMD higher end cards have all 16 lanes of PCIe wired up means they hold their performance when dropped in a PCIe 3.0 x 16 slot. The lower end cards you start noticing some problems when you drop them into a PCIe 3.0 slot because then you fall under the required bandwidth for performance.

      Dgpu not need a PCIe 5.0 or 6.0 x16 slot does not mean there will be absolutely nothing. The reality here with the bifurcation of slots in different motherboards the fact dgpus are not using more than PCIe 3.0 x16 or PCIe 4.0 x8 is really demonstrable.

      Yes bifurcation of PCIe 3.0 x16 to two PCIe 3.0 x8 use to cause under particular benchmarks quite a performance fall off.

      So pcie 4.0 dgpu that is a x16 end up behaving the same when its in a PCIe 4.0 slot x8 as a x16. Yes with the ~1 percent performance improvement over the old PCIe 3.0 x16.

      We kind of hit a threshold here.

      The doubling dice of Pcie performance has outstripped dgpu development. Coder just because something is wired up does not mean it doing anything useful.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
        Intel did provide a split PCIe 5.0 x8 times 2 as a motherboard maker option.
        Yes, I did see that. I still think PCIe 5.0 doesn't make sense on a desktop. Intel simply wanted to be first, and as long as people are content to pay for PCIe 5.0 in their Alder Lake motherboards, I guess that's fine.

        Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
        PCIe 5.0 x16 does make sense for particular accelerators
        But this is a mainstream desktop platform. I'm not talking about their workstations or server chips.

        Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
        So you have a 16x Pcie 4.0 slot you add another card and it comes a 8x slot.
        Duh. Their desktop CPUs don't have PCIe 4.0 x32.

        Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
        Even the highest end AMD model of dgpu in PCIe 4.0 x8 slot does not alter performance.
        Again, that's not true now, nor was it even true of the 5700 XT. There's good data out there, like this:


        Unfortunately, their analysis isn't quite up to the same level. First, it should be noted that they used only a Ryzen 3900X, which was not even the best gaming CPU at the time of the article's publication. The next caveat is that the GPU they used is only a RTX 3080 FE. On such a system, PCIe is less of a bottleneck than it'd be on a top-spec machine built even at that time, much less today. Finally, they looked at average framerate, rather than 99th percentile, which again would be more revealing.

        With all that said, let's look into what it actually shows. At all resolutions, the mean & median speedup is a bit over 1%. However, there's a fair amount of variation within that. What a gamer cares about is their favorite games, and not at all about the performance of games they have no interest in playing. So, let's look at where it helps and by how much.

        Resolution Max Speedup # Above Average
        1920x1080 3.9% 9
        2560x1440 4.2% 8
        3840x2160 6.0% 7

        That's not an insignificant shift in average FPS. As I said, the improvement in 99th percentile should be even greater. Finally, it will only increase with faster CPUs and GPUs.

        Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
        The doubling dice of Pcie performance has outstripped dgpu development.
        I already agreed on this point. PCIe 4.0 adds little, but more than you say.

        For gaming, PCIe 5.0 x16 is absolutely useless. It does add motherboard cost and burns more power (when actually used). The only argument for it would be to support dual-5.0 x8 GPUs, but we don't even know when any PCIe 5.0 GPUs will exist, nor is good multi-GPU support among software very widespread.

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