Originally posted by stormcrow
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
PCI Express 6.0 Announced For Release In 2021 With 64 GT/s Transfer Rates
Collapse
X
-
-
Originally posted by Drizzt321 View PostBecause it's NOT obsolete. PCIe 5.0 spec is only recently ratified and hardware/chip makers are all part of that process and know the timelines. They're devoted to PCIe 4.0 because otherwise they'll be left behind for another 2-4 years as everyone else implements PCIe 4.0 this year/next year.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by Drizzt321 View Post
From PCIe 5.0 to 6.0, according to https://www.anandtech.com/show/14559...o-land-in-2021 it's not frequency doubling, it's switching to multi-level signaling. Like MLC SSD drivers, a single voltage value could have up to 4 different 2-bit values.
- Likes 1
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by stormcrow View Post
I must have missed the part that mentioned clock frequency. Right now, unless you have access to the specification which is members only, all I've seen is a bunch of best-case numbers thrown out by PCI-SIG's marketing department.
Also, there's not a linear relationship between performance and clock speed in most applications. Just because PCI-SIG advertises doubling the throughput doesn't mean they've gotten there by doubling the clock frequency on the entire bus.
But you're right, doubling a line frequency can have a profound impact on the underlying materials, E&M problems, and thermal problems in an electrical system. It also doesn't follow that the OP's estimates are correct because when you do change the electrical properties in a circuit that the materials in the current circuits and circuit boards will be related to the circuits in the future board materials and layouts. There's a fundamental difference between the materials in a top of the line server board and an enthusiast or OEM board. The top line high quality board is likely to be all, or nearly all, gold circuits and will, generally, electrically perform better. As you go down in price the gold is replaced with copper where electrically and thermally feasible - and sometimes even when it's not. You can take a guess which board is more likely to come close to the theoretical maximums in the PCI-SIG specs all else being equal. Once you get to certain points the materials may no longer allow the electrical and thermal properties of one set of materials and instead mandate other more expensive materials due to thermal or E/M issues resulting in different price characteristics.
- Likes 5
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by microcode View Post
Doubling the frequency can have a profound impact.
Also, there's not a linear relationship between performance and clock speed in most applications. Just because PCI-SIG advertises doubling the throughput doesn't mean they've gotten there by doubling the clock frequency on the entire bus.
But you're right, doubling a line frequency can have a profound impact on the underlying materials, E&M problems, and thermal problems in an electrical system. It also doesn't follow that the OP's estimates are correct because when you do change the electrical properties in a circuit that the materials in the current circuits and circuit boards will be related to the circuits in the future board materials and layouts. There's a fundamental difference between the materials in a top of the line server board and an enthusiast or OEM board. The top line high quality board is likely to be all, or nearly all, gold circuits and will, generally, electrically perform better. As you go down in price the gold is replaced with copper where electrically and thermally feasible - and sometimes even when it's not. You can take a guess which board is more likely to come close to the theoretical maximums in the PCI-SIG specs all else being equal. Once you get to certain points the materials may no longer allow the electrical and thermal properties of one set of materials and instead mandate other more expensive materials due to thermal or E/M issues resulting in different price characteristics.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by microcode View Post
Doubling the frequency can have a profound impact.
Originally posted by chroma View PostHow can they design PCIe 6.0 to be backwards compatible with PCIe 5.0 and 4.0 when few vendors have even implemented PCIe 4.0 yet? Who even wants to bother implementing PCIe 4.0 now, knowing it's already obsolete twice over?
- Likes 8
Leave a comment:
-
How can they design PCIe 6.0 to be backwards compatible with PCIe 5.0 and 4.0 when few vendors have even implemented PCIe 4.0 yet? Who even wants to bother implementing PCIe 4.0 now, knowing it's already obsolete twice over?
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by cb88 View Post
That's mostly bunk mobo marketing phooey... PCIe 3.1 can run across a 25ft cable with virtually no performance loss. It is likely that the same is true for PCIe 4.0... if anything they are just tightening up the margins on vendors so they can get the performance out of the silicon that is already there.
Slow IO speed has been the primary bottleneck of most computers for ages. PCIe bandwidth isn't a problem for GPUs these days because developers know this and work hard to minimize CPU-GPU chat... that said quadrupling of bandwidth will relax that and enable developers do do things they couldn't do before. A 16x GPU on PCIe 6.0 will have 128GB/s of bandwidth to the system... at speeds that high you can probalby just leave large amounts of graphics resources just sitting on an SSD instead of having to load it and lazy load it as needed.
Realistically if you extrapolate some seat of pants numbers from the going rate for 6 layer boards 700 boards in ATX size is = $9.3
$9.3*(1.2)^10 = ~26 layer board cost = $56 in low volumes... motherboards are made by the thousands and tens of thousands. That's just being extreme of course, as AM4 motherboards typically have only 4-6 layers and an HEDT boards might ahve 10-15 layers. $9.3*(1.2)^10
The MSI MEG x570 board only has 8 layers... this is nothing cost wise as that board should cost something like $11-15 as a baseline, and since it probably has beefed up copper and such maybe $20?
- Likes 3
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by betam4x View PostI think they should probably hit the pause button on doubling the bandwidth every generation. PCIE 4.0 currently already requires multiple layers to implement properly, making motherboards far more expensive than in the past. I can only imagine what will happen with 5.0 and 6.0.
Slow IO speed has been the primary bottleneck of most computers for ages. PCIe bandwidth isn't a problem for GPUs these days because developers know this and work hard to minimize CPU-GPU chat... that said quadrupling of bandwidth will relax that and enable developers do do things they couldn't do before. A 16x GPU on PCIe 6.0 will have 128GB/s of bandwidth to the system... at speeds that high you can probalby just leave large amounts of graphics resources just sitting on an SSD instead of having to load it and lazy load it as needed.
Realistically if you extrapolate some seat of pants numbers from the going rate for 6 layer boards 700 boards in ATX size is = $9.3
$9.3*(1.2)^10 = ~26 layer board cost = $56 in low volumes... motherboards are made by the thousands and tens of thousands. That's just being extreme of course, as AM4 motherboards typically have only 4-6 layers and an HEDT boards might ahve 10-15 layers. $9.3*(1.2)^10
The MSI MEG x570 board only has 8 layers... this is nothing cost wise as that board should cost something like $11-15 as a baseline, and since it probably has beefed up copper and such maybe $20?Last edited by cb88; 18 June 2019, 06:39 PM.
- Likes 7
Leave a comment:
-
I think they should probably hit the pause button on doubling the bandwidth every generation. PCIE 4.0 currently already requires multiple layers to implement properly, making motherboards far more expensive than in the past. I can only imagine what will happen with 5.0 and 6.0.
- Likes 6
Leave a comment:
Leave a comment: