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Raptor Blackbird Micro-ATX POWER9 Motherboard Pre-Orders Open Up At $799 USD

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  • #11
    Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
    I wished they put a better webpage for that product, with more informative photos and diagrams of that motherboard. Right now looks like something from the nineties.
    Well, the web design is OK for me. I despise modern webs. The more info the better, though, and I'm not sure I understand all optional extras.
    There are Oculink adapters. Is it because the board has an oculink port in addition to the specs, because these adapters
    convert from one of the PCIe slots to OCULink, or because something I don't get it ?

    Also, will it display any kind of 2D graphic interface, or is just for a text terminal output? What is the max resolution?
    It says "1 HDMI Full HD (2D) video port" , somewhere, so I'm guessing 1920x1080, 2D graphics with some acceleration, any 3d purely by software on CPU.

    I think is a good offer, and if I lived in the USA or somewhere with usable customs, I'd possibly recommend it to people. If someone ever can sell these from inside the EU, then I might even get one to give to relatives.

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    • #12
      Aww, so close to ordering the 8-core bundle, and then they drop 147 shipping + 74 international order fee. That's plain ridiculous. Further, it won't let me see what the shipping and fees would be to US, if I sent it to a friend. Can anyone post what they charge for US orders?

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      • #13
        Originally posted by Dawn View Post

        Damn near anything, as long as it's using FOSS software or the (admittedly fairly limited) selection of commercial software for Linux/Power. The hardware here is quite powerful.
        This comment is hilarious.

        - What software can I run on this?
        - Any FOSS software! And commercial software that's been ported!

        Uhhh, okay? You make it sound like FOSS software automagically ports itself or something. No, it doesn't. When someone makes a comment like this, it's only showing they don't really use anything besides x86. Porting native software is never as simple as changing the compiler target. And the same goes for non-native, since those also rely on native software, or native extensions, or... The room for error is literally infinite. If it was that simple, we wouldn't have #ifdef code all over the place. If it was that simple, companies would also release their software to all platforms too, it's just ./configure && make && make install, everyone can afford that, right?

        Wrong. There were, and there are a lot of hurdles one faces when switching from x86. Lots of platform-specific bugs, since the userbase is way smaller, and thus it's always less ironed out. And this only covers the software on its own, while in reality, you rely on a pack of software, on several layers, starting from the OS. They all need integration. There's also lot of packaging errors, files left out, dependencies set up incorrectly, the list goes on. For instance, the NV DrivePX is also a PITA because of this, so many so stupid oversights.

        You also confuse source code with business model, freeware software can be closed source, and commercial software can be open source too. Not that either has any relevance in regards to it being ported to POWER or not.
        Last edited by anarki2; 11-24-2018, 07:17 AM.

        Comment


        • #14
          We have a couple of the blackbird's bigger cousins (IBM S922) at work, running RHEL, and the operating system as well as the applications that we use them for (Java, DB2, Postfix, plus some of our own developments) have been flawless so far.

          Porting our own develelopmens (mostly C,C++) was not difficult as the newer distros all run in little-endian mode (ppc64le).

          Will there be bugs in the (for linux-ppc64le) new class of desktop apps that people will want to run on these? Sure. I myself consider that finding (and reporting or solving) these are part of what open source is about.
          ​​​​​

          Comment


          • #15
            Originally posted by anarki2 View Post

            This comment is hilarious.

            - What software can I run on this?
            - Any FOSS software! And commercial software that's been ported!

            Uhhh, okay? You make it sound like FOSS software automagically ports itself or something. No, it doesn't. When someone makes a comment like this, it's only showing they don't really use anything besides x86. Porting native software is never as simple as changing the compiler target. And the same goes for non-native, since those also rely on native software, or native extensions, or... The room for error is literally infinite. If it was that simple, we wouldn't have #ifdef code all over the place. If it was that simple, companies would also release their software to all platforms too, it's just ./configure && make && make install, everyone can afford that, right?

            Wrong. There were, and there are a lot of hurdles one faces when switching from x86. Lots of platform-specific bugs, since the userbase is way smaller, and thus it's always less ironed out. And this only covers the software on its own, while in reality, you rely on a pack of software, on several layers, starting from the OS. They all need integration. There's also lot of packaging errors, files left out, dependencies set up incorrectly, the list goes on. For instance, the NV DrivePX is also a PITA because of this, so many so stupid oversights.

            You also confuse source code with business model, freeware software can be closed source, and commercial software can be open source too. Not that either has any relevance in regards to it being ported to POWER or not.
            While I understand your point, the list of supported packages for Power9 on Linux is actually pretty impressive:

            https://packages.debian.org/stretch/ppc64el/
            KDE, GNOME, Xfce
            0A.D., nethack, Warzone2100, Minetest
            emacs, vim
            chromium, firefox (though I've read that the JIT for Firefox hasn't been ported yet, and is a work-in-progress)
            mariadb, postgres,
            python, python3, php7, perl5, openjdk, mono, golang, GHC (Haskell), SBCL Lisp
            git, svn, bzr, mercurial
            GIMP, ImageMagick
            Kodi, ffmpeg, VLC,
            LibreOffice

            Now I've never used any of those packages on POWER9, maybe it's a giant mess. But I suspect it's a pretty solid experience.

            Comment


            • #16
              Originally posted by curaga View Post
              Aww, so close to ordering the 8-core bundle, and then they drop 147 shipping + 74 international order fee. That's plain ridiculous.
              What do you mean? I tried to buy it but I didn't get the 74 international order fee.
              Actually I'm really close to buying it, the only thing which prevents me from doing it is the fear that the actual shipping could be delayed way more than late Q1 2019. I don't like to get my money freezed for too long.
              ## VGA ##
              AMD: X1950XTX, HD3870, HD5870
              Intel: GMA45, HD3000 (Core i5 2500K)

              Comment


              • #17
                It becomes visible after you choose the payment method. Some payment methods have additional fees too.

                Comment


                • #18
                  Thanks, now I see it.
                  Can someone from Talos please confirm if those 73.89$ include ALL importing fees and taxes?
                  If I understand it correctly I won't have to pay the Italian VAT once the packet goes through the Italian customs because I've already paid it in the 73.89$, right?
                  One more thing: is it possible to get an invoice? I don't see any option to insert the VAT ID...
                  If someone remembers the Talos guy username, can he please tag him?
                  ## VGA ##
                  AMD: X1950XTX, HD3870, HD5870
                  Intel: GMA45, HD3000 (Core i5 2500K)

                  Comment


                  • #19
                    Originally posted by anarki2 View Post

                    This comment is hilarious.

                    - What software can I run on this?
                    - Any FOSS software! And commercial software that's been ported!

                    Uhhh, okay? You make it sound like FOSS software automagically ports itself or something. No, it doesn't. When someone makes a comment like this, it's only showing they don't really use anything besides x86. Porting native software is never as simple as changing the compiler target. And the same goes for non-native, since those also rely on native software, or native extensions, or... The room for error is literally infinite. If it was that simple, we wouldn't have #ifdef code all over the place. If it was that simple, companies would also release their software to all platforms too, it's just ./configure && make && make install, everyone can afford that, right?

                    Wrong. There were, and there are a lot of hurdles one faces when switching from x86. Lots of platform-specific bugs, since the userbase is way smaller, and thus it's always less ironed out. And this only covers the software on its own, while in reality, you rely on a pack of software, on several layers, starting from the OS. They all need integration. There's also lot of packaging errors, files left out, dependencies set up incorrectly, the list goes on. For instance, the NV DrivePX is also a PITA because of this, so many so stupid oversights.

                    You also confuse source code with business model, freeware software can be closed source, and commercial software can be open source too. Not that either has any relevance in regards to it being ported to POWER or not.
                    I've been running a Talos II, Raptor's much larger 2-socket brother to Blackbird, for production workloads (mail, DNS, SIP, XMPP, trac, NAMD, several internal dev VMs) since June. Before that, I was running an S812LC, sometimes called the Habanero, a single-socket Power8 system built by Tyan. When I say "damn near any open software", I mean that the overwhelming majority of major free software packages runs fine on Power today. There are plenty of instances of poor or absent platform-specific optimization, and occasionally minor platform-specific bugs or unexpected behavior, but very few of "it just doesn't work." And assuming I don't use non-x86 systems is pretty funny, given that my primary job is compiler development for non-x86 systems...

                    As for commercial software, I admit to using it as a shorthand for closed-source software in this instance. Sue me.
                    Last edited by Dawn; 11-24-2018, 11:24 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #20
                      No, that fee doesn't cover VAT or import taxes. It's purely to Raptor for the extra trouble in shipping internationally. I've never seen any seller have such.

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