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RadeonSI OpenGL vs. RADV Vulkan Performance For Mad Max

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  • #41
    Originally posted by agd5f View Post
    I admit having it open sourced would be easier, but it's certainly not unusable. It performs well and supports a wide range of asics.
    Yup, the vulkan part of amdgpu-pro driver seems to work well. I have tried it out a few months ago for SI hardware (R9 290).

    Any plans with the next release to support modern distros like Ubuntu 16.10 or Fedora 25? I think the lack of support on those is a bit of sore point... there isn't really any performant Vulkan driver to use if you have some of those popular distros with an AMD graphics card.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by agd5f View Post

      In addition to Linux users, it's used by quite a few users on other OSes.
      What linux desktop users are on a distro it supports, and which enterprise users are running any Vulkan apps at all? Somewhere between few and none.

      Meanwhile devs will continue to just target NVidia hardware on linux like they have for the last several years.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
        What linux desktop users are on a distro it supports, and which enterprise users are running any Vulkan apps at all? Somewhere between few and none.
        You're missing the key point though... the only reason the Vulkan driver can't work on an upstream kernel is because it is not open source and so kernel driver functionality required only for the Vulkan driver is not upstreamable. Once the code is opened up then it will be able to run on any upstream kernel.
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        • #44
          Let's see which Vulkan driver for AMD works out in the end. At the moment we have an open source driver, which works at least and where community and game developer / publisher contribute to. It's not the fastest at the moment but I believe it will get the in some time.
          In contrast we have a proprietary driver which is not supported on modern distributions, so it cannot be used, and which will is planned to be released as open source some timeTM.
          If the released AMD Vulkan driver is the same success story as DC/DAL you can imagine how long it will take until it hits mesa officially....

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          • #45
            Originally posted by agd5f View Post

            I admit having it open sourced would be easier, but it's certainly not unusable. It performs well and supports a wide range of asics.


            There are 3 gallium software rasterizers in mesa all of which are actively developed.
            The software rasterizers: one is the legacy single-threaded reference implementation that predates Gallium (softwarepipe), one is a recent rewrite which was supposed to replace the former one (llvmpipe) but didn't get there due to resistance to llvm and the last is pretty much Intel-only (both support and use) - of all 3, the most that "normal users" see is llvmpipe as default fallback when no hardware acceleration is available - that's how most current distros are set up, since llvmpipe is the most common fallback for major compositing desktops (Gnome3, Kde Plasma and Unity).

            And when I say it's unusable, please remind me whether games support Mesa or AMDGPU-PRO on AMD hardware? What driver AMD developers recommend for gaming?

            Mesa all the way. And the only AMD-compatible Vulkan driver currently shipping in Mesa is radv, one year after Vulkan 1.0 came out.

            I'm not even considering how installing AMDGPU-PRO is a pain in the butt: if you're not on Ubuntu 16.04 LTS using the original 4.4 kernel, the installer craps out (command-line only - you've lost 90% of users there, and lucky you're on Linux, on Windows you'd have lost 99.999%). Never mind using SteamOS, Fedora, Suse, Mint,ElementaryOS or whatever.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by mitch074 View Post
              I'm not even considering how installing AMDGPU-PRO is a pain in the butt: if you're not on Ubuntu 16.04 LTS using the original 4.4 kernel, the installer craps out (command-line only - you've lost 90% of users there, and lucky you're on Linux, on Windows you'd have lost 99.999%). Never mind using SteamOS, Fedora, Suse, Mint,ElementaryOS or whatever.
              Again you are missing the point - the limited distro support is purely a function of the driver being closed source, since we ca not upstream the required kernel support without an open source userspace that needs it. Once the driver is open sourced that restriction (and the limited distro support) goes away and the driver will be able to run against the upstream kernel driver.

              The goal is to end up with a fast driver, able to leverage optimizations & new HW support from our closed source efforts, that runs as part of the open source stack. Anything less and we wouldn't have bothered.
              Last edited by bridgman; 31 March 2017, 04:25 AM.
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              • #47
                Originally posted by mitch074 View Post
                And when I say it's unusable, please remind me whether games support Mesa or AMDGPU-PRO on AMD hardware? What driver AMD developers recommend for gaming?

                Mesa all the way. And the only AMD-compatible Vulkan driver currently shipping in Mesa is radv, one year after Vulkan 1.0 came out.
                I don't get the connection. We have been recommending Mesa GL, not "Mesa period".
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                • #48
                  Originally posted by bridgman View Post

                  No holdup, it's just a big pile of work and "rewriting to eliminate things you can't expose publicly" is not something that can be done in a public tree.
                  AMD is supposed to have the superior architecture, especially when doing Vulkan stuff.
                  So, I'm wondering, what are those "things you can't expose publicly" exactly, AMD hardware details or 3rd party code/IP ?

                  Also, what's the planning for this AMD opensource Vulkan driver ?
                  Will we see it when VEGA is released ?

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                  • #49
                    bridgman well, casting aside all the arguing:
                    • we can all agree that Mesa is the default driver shipping with every distro
                    • AMD is investing in such open driver driver, which is absolutely commendable
                    • RADV is the Vulkan driver shipping with Mesa
                    • Vulkan performance on RADV is kinda decent and, at times, better than OPENGL - yet it's miles behind when compared to both AMD's and NVIDIA's propietary Vulkan driver

                    summing it up: even though AMD is investing in the open stack, the end user gets the worst performance possible out-of-the-box.

                    That's not even considering that some linux user (read: me) are running linux-amd-staging-4.9 to get HDMI audio on Polaris hardware.

                    I know it's not up to you devs and, again, AMD pushing the open driver stack is something i really appreciate (that's why my main/gaming system is AMD/Mesa all the way), but AMD needs to invest more resources in this strategy. You, Linux/Mesa AMD devs, need more people working on this. Showing off incredible Vulkan performance on Linux out-of-the-box will open up/expand the market for AMD and create new opportuinities, while lagging behind due to lack of manpower will have a boomerang effect.

                    Having said that, I'm rooting for you guys. Keep it up!

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by kirgahn View Post
                      bridgman well, casting aside all the arguing:
                      • we can all agree that Mesa is the default driver shipping with every distro
                      • AMD is investing in such open driver driver, which is absolutely commendable
                      • RADV is the Vulkan driver shipping with Mesa
                      • radv is *one* vulkan driver, there can be many, nothing wrong with this
                        Originally posted by kirgahn View Post
                        bridgman well, casting aside all the arguing:
                      • Vulkan performance on RADV is kinda decent and, at times, better than OPENGL - yet it's miles behind when compared to both AMD's and NVIDIA's propietary Vulkan driver
                    Originally posted by kirgahn View Post
                    summing it up: even though AMD is investing in the open stack, the end user gets the worst performance possible out-of-the-box.

                    That's not even considering that some linux user (read: me) are running linux-amd-staging-4.9 to get HDMI audio on Polaris hardware.

                    I know it's not up to you devs and, again, AMD pushing the open driver stack is something i really appreciate (that's why my main/gaming system is AMD/Mesa all the way), but AMD needs to invest more resources in this strategy. You, Linux/Mesa AMD devs, need more people working on this. Showing off incredible Vulkan performance on Linux out-of-the-box will open up/expand the market for AMD and create new opportuinities, while lagging behind due to lack of manpower will have a boomerang effect.

                    Having said that, I'm rooting for you guys. Keep it up!
                    Performance will get there, features will be implemented, and the OOB experience seems more like a packaging problem for distro's to solve.

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