RadeonSI OpenGL vs. RADV Vulkan Performance For Mad Max

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  • bridgman
    replied
    Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
    Unless that's changing in the next couple months, then it's you who's missing the key point, not me.
    Yeah, you guys are going to have fun writing snarky comments if radv catches up with features & performance before our driver gets open sourced, but...

    (a) if we simply stopped work on it the criticism would probably be even worse ("wah wah, AMD lied and never intended to open source the driver, it's a good thing Dave worked on radv or we would have all been screwed by AMD"), and...

    (b) radv doesn't give us what our Vulkan driver does, which is a direct path for leveraging closed-source development work into the all-open stack.
    Last edited by bridgman; 31 March 2017, 02:20 PM.

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  • smitty3268
    replied
    Originally posted by agd5f View Post

    Just about all Linux OEM pre-loads are on enterprise distros.
    But how many people using OEM pre-loads are using a Vulkan driver?

    The intersection of that Venn diagram seems small.

    I get that it makes sense for the pro drivers to target that market for OpenGL, but Vulkan?

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  • smitty3268
    replied
    Originally posted by bridgman View Post

    You're missing the key point though... the only reason the Vulkan driver can't work on an upstream kernel is because it is not open source and so kernel driver functionality required only for the Vulkan driver is not upstreamable. Once the code is opened up then it will be able to run on any upstream kernel.
    Unless that's changing in the next couple months, then it's you who's missing the key point, not me.

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  • agd5f
    replied
    Originally posted by mitch074 View Post

    The software rasterizers: one is the legacy single-threaded reference implementation that predates Gallium (softwarepipe), one is a recent rewrite which was supposed to replace the former one (llvmpipe) but didn't get there due to resistance to llvm and the last is pretty much Intel-only (both support and use) - of all 3, the most that "normal users" see is llvmpipe as default fallback when no hardware acceleration is available - that's how most current distros are set up, since llvmpipe is the most common fallback for major compositing desktops (Gnome3, Kde Plasma and Unity).
    If you count swrast, there are actually 4 software rasterizers in Mesa (one legacy mesa (swrast) and 3 gallium (swr, softpipe, llvmpipe)).

    Originally posted by mitch074 View Post
    And when I say it's unusable, please remind me whether games support Mesa or AMDGPU-PRO on AMD hardware? What driver AMD developers recommend for gaming?
    Most games right now are OpenGL and for OpenGL we recommend the open source OpenGL driver. It's focused more on gaming while the closed source OpenGL driver is focused on workstation.

    Originally posted by mitch074 View Post
    Mesa all the way. And the only AMD-compatible Vulkan driver currently shipping in Mesa is radv, one year after Vulkan 1.0 came out.

    I'm not even considering how installing AMDGPU-PRO is a pain in the butt: if you're not on Ubuntu 16.04 LTS using the original 4.4 kernel, the installer craps out (command-line only - you've lost 90% of users there, and lucky you're on Linux, on Windows you'd have lost 99.999%). Never mind using SteamOS, Fedora, Suse, Mint,ElementaryOS or whatever.
    Currently only enterprise distros are supported by the pro stack. That's why it's not working on arbitrary distros. Moreover, the only reason the vulkan driver is bundled with the pro driver is because the extra kernel bits needed for it can't go upstream yet because the only user is closed source. Once it gets open sourced, all those changes can land upstream.

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  • agd5f
    replied
    Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
    What linux desktop users are on a distro it supports, and which enterprise users are running any Vulkan apps at all? Somewhere between few and none.
    Just about all Linux OEM pre-loads are on enterprise distros.

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  • duby229
    replied
    Originally posted by agd5f View Post

    In addition to Linux users, it's used by quite a few users on other OSes.
    No it isn't, it hasn't even been released yet. Nobody is using AMD's open source Vulkan driver. And let's not forget the fact that even then the open source version of it will not be available for use on Windows or OSX..

    So it -isn't- available yet, and when it finally is it'll only be available for Linux and maybe *BSD.

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  • UbayGd
    replied
    Using Vulkan I cant run this game The launcher crash and show me this "vulkan device has not suitable present queue families".
    Using OpenGL, 1920x1080 and high settings, 4FPS.....


    My specs:
    Ubuntu 16.04, Mesa 17.1 (from Padoka PPA), kernel 4.9 (from amd-staging-4.9 branch)
    FX-8350, 12GB RAM DDR3, RADEON RX470 8GB

    Anyone else with this problem??

    Leave a comment:


  • duby229
    replied
    You keep saying that radv isn't performant, but what almost all benchmarks show is that it performs fantastically in GPU bound scenarios's, like for example with lower end GPU's. Which indicates that it needs more optimizations to get the most out of higher end GPU's. And that's all. Given more development and official support if -could- perform better. I say could, because it doesn't seem like AMD is ever going to do that unfortunately.

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  • ernstp
    replied
    Originally posted by theghost View Post

    As far as I understood him it's more a matter of IP and the legal department than code that gets rejected by upstream.
    There are two parts, the actual Vulkan implementation and some necessary changes to the Linux kernel that the Vulkan driver depends on.

    Now the Linux kernel has a policy to not accept patches for new userspace API unless there is an _open source_ implementation that actually uses the API.
    So while in theory you could run the closed Vulkan implementation now on a "mainline" kernel, that will never happen.

    However, nothing is stopping AMD from publishing those kernel patches anyway to let people test, review and actually use in the meantime. And they kinda exist in open form as part of the AMDGPU-PRO DKMS package but they're a bit hard to extract from there I think...

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  • humbug
    replied
    Originally posted by ernstp View Post
    I'm now on a Ryzen system so I really want to run >= 4.10 ... and have an AMD GPU... how do I use AMDGPU-PRO? Radv is the only Vulkan driver for me now..
    yep, basically you (like many of us) have no performant Vulkan driver to use on your Linux setup.
    I think that's the reason for the frustration seen on the forum. I am a supporter of AMD and think they are heading in the right direction. Even the posts they have made in this thread indicate they are heading in the right direction. It's just that those of us who purchased AMD graphics cards never expected to be in this predicament, I.e. more than a year after Vulkan launched and without comprehensive driver support...

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