Linux 6.3 To Remove Obsolete GPU Drivers: ATI Rage 128, 3Dfx, S3 Savage, i810 & More

[sinepgib]

Personally, not a fan of cutting code for working drivers.

Of course, in an ideal world everything is supported forever. But in the real, practical world, you compromise the limited time people have. And not only time, but hardware: Linux moves too fast, too often the only testing these drivers have for these changes is that they still build, and it can be no other way because devs don't have an infinite supply of hardware to test it, nor infinite space to store that hardware.
A slower moving OS may get away with it, say NetBSD. But the one that is right now changing all its memory management scheme? It's bound to break some of the de facto abandoned drivers and users will probably notice years from now.

On the flip, those using this very old code, will likely have no problems using an older kernel, as they're likely using the hardware for some brief exquisite purpose only.

As previously noted, this is not entirely true. Poor people tends to use this hardware as daily driver until it breaks. Those will need security fixes, so they won't necessarily use old kernels. But, as I also said previously, the drivers themselves added little value for any up-to-date-ish OS, those cards are in practice used as a VESA framebuffer anyway, and they'll work pretty much the same with the VESA framebuffer driver.

[mercster]

Memories... my first Linux box had an S3 Trio, but I guess that's even older than Savage.

[caligula]

As previously noted, this is not entirely true. Poor people tends to use this hardware as daily driver until it breaks. Those will need security fixes, so they won't necessarily use old kernels. But, as I also said previously, the drivers themselves added little value for any up-to-date-ish OS, those cards are in practice used as a VESA framebuffer anyway, and they'll work pretty much the same with the VESA framebuffer driver.

OTOH LTS kernels get updates for ~6 years, e.g. see the 4.9.x series. So there will be LTS updates until 2027 or so before the support will eventually come to an end. If you still need support after that, it might be possible to run this old kernel with more recent userspace without any issues. It's actually amazing that some 1996 hardware would work and would be used as a daily driver in 2027. To me that sounds 100% bullshit, but who knows. In many cases, there's also the option to replace the GPU with something more recent if you have spare PCIe/PCI/AGP/VLB/ISA slots. So I think if you really wanted, even 40 yo computers could be used in 2037. After that there will be new issues like the Y2038 problem.

[Berniyh]

OTOH LTS kernels get updates for ~6 years, e.g. see the 4.9.x series. So there will be LTS updates until 2027 or so before the support will eventually come to an end. If you still need support after that, it might be possible to run this old kernel with more recent userspace without any issues. It's actually amazing that some 1996 hardware would work and would be used as a daily driver in 2027. To me that sounds 100% bullshit, but who knows. In many cases, there's also the option to replace the GPU with something more recent if you have spare PCIe/PCI/AGP/VLB/ISA slots. So I think if you really wanted, even 40 yo computers could be used in 2037. After that there will be new issues like the Y2038 problem.

Actually, most LTS kernels receive Updates for a shorter period, usually around 4 years, but sometimes also only around 2 to 3 years.

[sinepgib]

OTOH LTS kernels get updates for ~6 years, e.g. see the 4.9.x series. So there will be LTS updates until 2027 or so before the support will eventually come to an end. If you still need support after that, it might be possible to run this old kernel with more recent userspace without any issues.

This is true, but by definition this is not an "old kernel". It's still being updated and supported.

It's actually amazing that some 1996 hardware would work and would be used as a daily driver in 2027.

My VIA Unichrome box was bought in 2006. I have no idea about the other cards.

To me that sounds 100% bullshit, but who knows.

I do know. I live in Argentina. I know several people still using 2006 hardware. Granted, the ones I know of that still use it have 2006 era AMD hardware that is still supported AFAIK. This doesn't change the fact that in poor countries we squeeze the hardware we have much longer than in the first world.

In many cases, there's also the option to replace the GPU with something more recent if you have spare PCIe/PCI/AGP/VLB/ISA slots. So I think if you really wanted, even 40 yo computers could be used in 2037. After that there will be new issues like the Y2038 problem.

I think the buses would limit that replacement. I remember when I still used the VIA computer they no longer made new cards using the one I had (I think AGP but I'm not sure).

[sinepgib]

Actually, most LTS kernels receive Updates for a shorter period, usually around 4 years, but sometimes also only around 2 to 3 years.

That's for Linux Foundation support, but there's also EU support (I always forget the name, but it's something like critical infrastructure something). That lasts much longer, I think 10 years?

[Berniyh]

That's for Linux Foundation support, but there's also EU support (I always forget the name, but it's something like critical infrastructure something). That lasts much longer, I think 10 years?

Sure there are some versions out there that receive very long support. It really depends on the users/distributinos that use a particular version and whether somebody steps up to maintain it.
But for a regular LTS version it's just a bit optimistic to assume that it'll receive updates for 6 years. It can happen, but you don't really know at this point.

[caligula]

This is true, but by definition this is not an "old kernel". It's still being updated and supported.

I mean 6.2 or the latest LTS 5.15 will be old when they reach their EOL (maybe in 2027). I didn't refer to the current situtation. This 6.3 which drops the support hasn't been released yet. Even 6.2 hasn't been released yet.

My VIA Unichrome box was bought in 2006. I have no idea about the other cards.

Ok but I meant the other chips which are 10 years older.

I do know. I live in Argentina. I know several people still using 2006 hardware. Granted, the ones I know of that still use it have 2006 era AMD hardware that is still supported AFAIK. This doesn't change the fact that in poor countries we squeeze the hardware we have much longer than in the first world.

2006 era hardware can still perform reasonably well, but the 1996 era computers really don't. The 486 system I had in 1996 only had like 250 MB of disk space and 4 MB of RAM. Totally useless these days.

I think the buses would limit that replacement. I remember when I still used the VIA computer they no longer made new cards using the one I had (I think AGP but I'm not sure).

Buses would limit? No they don't! Their purpose is to support extending the original capabilities of the system. You'll only run into problems if the system doesn't have slots available / incompatible voltages / PSU or motherboard doesn't provide enough power. For example I had an older Slot A system from 1999 or 2000 with AGP 2x. When I sold that system it had a more recent radeon r300 gpu, maybe 9800 Pro. I think that's still supported unlike these.

[sinepgib]

I mean 6.2 or the latest LTS 5.15 will be old when they reach their EOL (maybe in 2027). I didn't refer to the current situtation. This 6.3 which drops the support hasn't been released yet. Even 6.2 hasn't been released yet.

No, what I mean is precisely that since they're still being updated they aren't strictly "old".

Ok but I meant the other chips which are 10 years older.

Yeah, I know.

2006 era hardware can still perform reasonably well, but the 1996 era computers really don't. The 486 system I had in 1996 only had like 250 MB of disk space and 4 MB of RAM. Totally useless these days.

I fully agree here.

Buses would limit? No they don't! Their purpose is to support extending the original capabilities of the system. You'll only run into problems if the system doesn't have slots available / incompatible voltages / PSU or motherboard doesn't provide enough power. For example I had an older Slot A system from 1999 or 2000 with AGP 2x. When I sold that system it had a more recent radeon r300 gpu, maybe 9800 Pro. I think that's still supported unlike these.

Yeah, what I meant is that you reach a point where no new cards use your given bus. Even if the CPU or RAM seems enough, you can't always keep extending them. But yeah, an r300 is reasonable.

[dlq84]

I say this, because many popular servers made today use the mga. I'm not saying you should run a graphical head, but will be interesting when Windows folks will state that at least their OS still allows this.

You don't need a special driver for it to output basic things due to VESA standards.