AMD Radeon RX 6500 XT Linux Performance

[coder]

I'd add my concerns about power consumption

Same.

I was rather disturbed to see the RTX 3000 series double down on the power increases we saw in the 2000 series. I had figured RTX 2000 had to eat higher power consumption due to being on 12 nm process that was only a half-step better than the 1000 series'. And I know Samsung's 8 nm isn't very competitive with TSMC 7 nm, but I still couldn't believe they went yet further. Like, taking a page out of Intel's recent playbook. This is not what we need, right now.

[otoomet]

I also think that a lot of online journalists and testers really overestimate how much people are willing to spend and what they might expect. Even in rich societies...

This is pretty much my feelings too. I live in a rich society but I do not think spending more than $200 on a gaming card is worth it. There is other kind of fun I'd prefer for $500 or whatever a "reasonable" card costs. So I find it hard to be excited about 3090Ti and other such flagships. Sure, it is fun to see the insane fps in benchmarks, but I can do this on youtube and do need it myself. I'd add my concerns about power consumption--the current political events make me to be well aware that our energy sources are dependent on questionable political regimes, and unfortunately burning power in a gpu also burns the planet.

Would be interesting to know how big is the group of potential customers who think in this way--I hope it is sufficiently large, so the producers have incentive to come out with more and better offers in <=$200 price range.

[Takla]

I also think that a lot of online journalists and testers really overestimate how much people are willing to spend and what they might expect. Even in rich societies a GPU card costing USD$1000 or $2000 is a *very* niche product. Just by looking at the huge range of low/mid performance cards available it is obvious that there are many millions of us who like playing some games but are not fanatical about it, who just want something that works better than integrated graphics so we can have an experience that looks good and doesn't stutter. We might appreciate the qualities of, and even aspire to own, a high end card; but life is full of choices and most people think spending $200 on a card is off the wall and can think of many, many things they'd prefer to do with the other $800 or $1200.

Another appealing aspect of these RX 6500 cards that I don't think I've seen anyone mention: if you have a tolerable integrated GPU (I have Ryzen 5600G) then adding a PCI GPU allows you to dedicate one card to your host OS and the other to a virtual machine. I'm intending to keep running my Debian desktop on the iGPU as it's perfect for a composited desktop and HEVC/AVC playback, but dedicate the RX 6500 to a Win 10 VM for games. It looks like this is half a day's work to set up and test but if this works out ok then I can dismantle my ancient Win 10 desktop running Core-i7 2600 and GTX 760 and Xonar DX audio card and sell those components and the board, which should pay for maybe 50 to 60% of the cost of the RX 6500 and free up some space by my desk. In the real world people don't just get a new GPU and throw out the old stuff. We're not like tech journos, we actually have to pay for this stuff! With actual money!

[coder]

I have totally run out of reasons not to replace it. So this evening I ordered an RX 6500 XT.

Before covid, I'd gotten burned a few times by buying something before I needed it. I had then decided only ever to buy tech products when I absolutely needed them, no matter how good a deal might seem. Well, then covid came along and rewarded my tech-hoarding tendencies.

But, I still generally agree. Buying what you need, when you need it, is the best strategy in the long-run. You just have to accept that it won't always be locally-optimal.

I hope the card meets or exceeds your expectations.

BTW, from where I sit, these cards seem to be holding at around the $260 price point they went towards, right after launch. Only 30% above list price, IIRC -- that's mildly encouraging.

[Takla]

If you have a card currently best is to wait.

I could only wait so long. Am still running a reference 2GB GTX 760 and was about to replace it when Covid struck and miners bought everything I wanted and drove prices to insane levels. At the moment I can afford a RX 6500 XT or a GTX 1650, so the RX 6500 XT is easily the better choice because what matters is what it will give me, not what the reactions of IT journos and testers were on release. Meanwhile my ancient GTX 760 has just had support for GeForce Experience withdrawn by Nvidia, Paypal has introduced pay in three options which softens the blow, and I have totally run out of reasons not to replace it. So this evening I ordered an RX 6500 XT.

[Melcar]

If you have a card currently best is to wait.

[pal666]

Then you'll have to relocate to an alternative reality where there is no "crypto" ponzi scheme nor Covid. But unfortunately that reality doesn't exist, so the choices are:
- a used card an even more obscene prices. I bought a used RX470/4GB for just over 100€ in early 2020 or 2021 and last I checked I could sell that card at a profit - even if it is broken!
- a new RX5000 series which have completely deranged prices
- an RX6600 at approximately double the price of the 6500XT

no, i have another choice: use my current videocard and wait. i prefer not to be extorted

[pal666]

Then you're not in the target group for this card.

we were discussing whether i need a gpu soon

[coder]

Electronics followed a different trend, up to now, but I do not see a reason why should it always be like this.

Yes, if input material prices increase or newer fabrication processes become more expensive (which I think is true for anything involving EUV), then die area becomes more expensive. And that's completely separate from the current supply/demand mismatch, which should eventually sort itself out.

The main reason EUV-related cost increases are somewhat fundamental is that I believe it requires more time per wafer. That means the same fab throughput (i.e. in terms of wafers) requires more fabrication machines, which are themselves incredibly expensive. Also, requires more space in the fabs, which isn't free but (eventually) comes at less of a premium than the machinery.

[otoomet]

Agree, catpig . We are just used to that the same money buys more powerful tech 5 years later, but it does not have to be like this. And it is not so in many markets, e.g. the some money buys an inferior house now than 5 years ago (in many-many cities), it buys less gold than 5 years ago, and the same is true for e.g. steel price and container shipping rates. Electronics followed a different trend, up to now, but I do not see a reason why should it always be like this. It is not detached from the world markets, e.g. shipping problems or production capacity limits.

In normal times, when one can increase the production, the product prices are related to production costs (MSRP and such), in times of capacity constraints the price is determined by the willingness to buy. And miners are apparently willing to buy for quite a high prices. It is possible that the current problems go away and suddenly we are in oversupply in a few years, I guess we will see such times, but we also see repeats of 2021 when we are in capacity constrained world again.

High-tech product development is extremely research intensive, and production is extremely capital intensive, so we are probably stuck with intel-amd duopoly in the foreseeable future (at least for now, arm is not really an option), and there will only be a handful of foundries that can do cutting-edge stuff. Again, this has been the case in other markets for ages (Microsoft in OS-s, Airbus-Boeing in airplanes..).