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AMD Announces The Radeon RX 6700 XT For $479

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  • #81
    Originally posted by pal666 View Post
    there's no second source of 7nm. and "global shortage" means "all sources shortage"
    Even if Samsung had such a 7nm process, it would be very different anyway. Your definition of second sourcing is very narrow, the whole idea also includes shifting some of your products to other foundries to spread risks. And AMD could have taken at least some products to Samsung to free up precious 7nm TSMC capacity. That's what would have made them more flexible to meet demand.

    Granted, there are other issues which have an impact, wafer capacity is just one of them. But again, AMD and other companies could have acted sooner to accomodate to these difficulties, their strategic planning should have included such scenarios as the China-US trade relations were known to have a similar devastating impact on their supply chains just as the Pandemic. I also read yesterday that some ABF substrate manufacturers take their time until 2022 to increase capacity - if it were such a serious bottleneck I would expect companies like AMD to be more vocal to put more pressure on them to speed up that effort.

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    • #82
      Originally posted by boboviz View Post
      The correct price for this is 350/370$
      Actually about $1500 in Covid pricing.

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      • #83
        Originally posted by phoronix_is_awesome View Post
        This is insane, 192Bit GPU at nearly $500. What is AMD smoking pricing their 192Bit GPU at 479 against Nvidia's 192Bit 3060 at MSRP $329?
        What determines price is not specs but performance alone. Miners care a lot about memory bandwidth, but for games, the very fast 96mb cache does the job, just like the cpu caches.

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        • #84
          Originally posted by pal666 View Post
          lol how do you solve "global wafer shortage" in an "entire year" ? scream loudly on forums?
          right... you need 4 years for a new GPU chip design who maybe with chiplet design use less mm² to then push out more chips

          and you need like 6 years to build a new 3nm node factory but peope believe you can fix computer chip shortage in 1 year.
          Phantom circuit Sequence Reducer Dyslexia

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          • #85
            Originally posted by ms178 View Post

            Once upon a time AMD had money and owned its own manufacturing facilities.

            But seriously, if I were Lisa Su I would have called my CEO buddies a year ago who are also affected by the same shortages and put much more pressure on the one's which are the bottlenecks now. It is not that a disruption of global supply chains came totally out of nowhere with the US-China trade relations deterioating. At least that started the process of re-thinking global supply chains. The only bright side I see of this is the initiatives in Europe and the US to build up their tech sector (hopefully they try to do some things better to be competitive).
            The thing is, this situation with semiconductors have nothing to do with China as far as I can see, for the reason that none of the companies mentioned in this context use (mainland) Chinese fabs (Taiwan is not included in US-China tariffs nonsense AFAIK). The good way to see that is that there are no shortages in motherboards supply for example, and that depends on mainland China much more than semiconductors. The issue here is that semiconductor fabrication companies can't provide a supply for the demand that's there (for some reason), all of the companies who do rely on those fabs did their job (designed chip, optimized for specific fab etc.), the part we are missing is volume of the production to meet demand.
            US will probably have no issues in creating fab independence, I'm not so sure about EU tho.

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            • #86
              Originally posted by Mark625 View Post
              For all of you complaining about AMD's pricing.... get a grip. AMD is not a charity. They will (and should!) charge as much as they can for each unit, up until competitive pressure prevents them from doing so. That's the way supply and demand works. If supply is too low for the given demand, prices will go up. Higher prices will encourage more production. More production will increase supply and eventually lower prices. Higher prices will continue until they (and Nvidia) can't sell every card (or chip, whatever) they produce. Until then, the sky is the limit.

              Cheers!
              This is what naturally happens in a healthy market. The gpu market is NOT a healthy market. This is a CARTEL, a duopoly. Essentially gaming is being held hostage by Nvidia and AMD. If you want to game, pay up or else. A couple of decades ago governments would fine them to oblivion for this, but these days this can never happen, so they get to ask for a kidney for a new gpu if you want to play Cyberpunk 2077 anytime soon.

              Notice how both Nvidia and AMD have refused to introduce (real) mainstream and budget variants of their gpus for years. AMD refuses to make gaming apus too. They are essentially telling you that if you want to game at all, you need to pay more than 300$ for anything near decent performance. This is insane, especially in the current economic climate, but they can get away with this because there is no alternative. If you don't pay up, you don't game.

              This will only get fixed when competitors offer alternative gaming hardware. Intel and/or ARM based manufacturers. Then you will "suddenly" see both Nvidia and AMD slash their prices considerably....

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              • #87
                Originally posted by boboviz View Post
                The correct price for this is 350/370$
                No, really, the correct price for this is 200$, at best. And i am being generous. The gpu market has been overinflated for years now.

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                • #88
                  Originally posted by artivision View Post
                  You and i both have the money to buy anything we want but most people don't. When you say 1280 lower your head please. Start thinking with 300,
                  there is another way to lower the costs significantly on the long run: openCAPI

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohere...ssor_Interface
                  https://www.anandtech.com/show/14706...mory-interface

                  i do have a threadripper 1920X and i do have 128gb ECC ram.- it is 700€
                  if i switch to a DDR5 system i have to buy it again but with openCAPI i could use my old ram in my new system
                  and i think to save 700€ on a system upgrade it is a huge impact.

                  i discovered a usercase what save you a lot of money in the long run.
                  for example if your old pc has ddr4 and your new pc has ddr5 you need new ram this means 500-800€ for like 128gb...
                  now imagine if your old system is OpenCAPI and the new one is also openCAPI
                  then you can just use the old ram for the new system. an later if the ram prices go down you can upgrade it.
                  this saves you a lot of money.

                  just do some computer history.. SDRAM DDR1 DDR2 DDR3 DDR4 DDR5...
                  thry did ram in 13nm in 64nm in 34nm in 24nm in 16 nm in 10nm in 7nm in 5nm
                  and the ram price per GB drop down ddr1 was more expensive per 1gb than ddr2 and ddr3 is more expensive per GB than ddr4 and as soon as the ram is build in smaler nm node the price per GB goes down.

                  so even if your claim is right and you do not get higher performance because your ram is maxing out the link speed
                  then it is true that you get more and more GB of ram for less and less money.
                  the first ram and first IBM power9 system maybe is high so you say it is expensive but over the long run scaling capacity on old systems become more and more cheap lets say you have an stone age old system 10 years... you will get a lot of ram very cheap if you jump from ddr3 to ddr4 to ddr5 and ddr6...
                  "The way they get speed benefits is simply by decoupling the RAM from the CPU, so they can scale up the number of channels"
                  and this sounds also very good. you get the speed of a 240pin DDR4 on only 40 pin...
                  this means you can build systems with a lot more ram channels..
                  so you have to admit that this is very good anti-obsolescence technology. and it really could revolutionise computer history.
                  yes as you said if you buy a desktop system with it it could be more expensive at start but after 10 years you could save a lot of money.
                  my TR 1920X i now bought 128gb ECC ram with 3200mhz... but my mainboard can handle 4000mhz ram
                  but there is no DDR4 ECC ram with 4000mhz but they could build DDR5 ram with ECC at 4000mhz
                  this means with open-CAPI i would get my 4000mhz ECC ram years later.

                  it is designed for flexibility for example if you have a task who does not need fast ram but a lot of ram you can build openCAPI SSD
                  then it is much cheaper per 1GB of ram...
                  it is also designed to reduce Obsolescence means if you have a server you have openCAPI DDR4 ram and later you want to upgrade it to DDR5 or GDDR6x thats no problem.
                  and in this meaning it can reduce costs because for an old system you do not need to buy new system for DDR5 you just upgrade your old DDR4 system with DDR5... and imagine this: in future there is super cheap DDR6 ram no problem you upgrade to DDR6...

                  so its not designed to add a lot of cost it is designed to reduce the costs in the long run
                  Last edited by qarium; 04 March 2021, 10:24 AM.
                  Phantom circuit Sequence Reducer Dyslexia

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                  • #89
                    OpenCAPI is neat, but if it costs $100 more dollars to implement on the motherboards, even if it means you save $100, or $1000 on memory, I'm not sure if the consumer is going to go for it.

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                    • #90
                      Originally posted by lyamc View Post
                      OpenCAPI is neat, but if it costs $100 more dollars to implement on the motherboards, even if it means you save $100, or $1000 on memory, I'm not sure if the consumer is going to go for it.
                      ok thats clear the consumer does all kind of stupid stuff like don't use ECC memory or buy notebook without the ability to easily open it up and clean the copper fins of the cooler or buy hardware who is not possible to upgrade the ram or harddrive.
                      also the complete closed source stuff consumers buy is complete idiotic.

                      thats all clear but imagine a world in what we get any SANE government and they say well if you want to pay tax you can buy whatever you want but we make it possible to buy TAX-FREE computers if the computer follow some professsional rules likes:

                      OpenCAPI
                      ECC memory RAM for the CPU (maybe later GPU to)
                      Easy way to repear like clean the copper fins of the cooler
                      Operation System needs to be Opensource
                      Drivers of the hardware like GPU need to be opensource
                      RAM and Harddrive need to be upgradeable easily

                      for a system like this we can make the TAX rate of 0% ...
                      Phantom circuit Sequence Reducer Dyslexia

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