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  • #71
    Originally posted by Linuxxx View Post
    You know the ultimate solution to the "24 FPS is too low for smooth motion" problem?

    "mpv" with these interpolation settings:

    The result?

    No artifacts while having absolutely smooth motion, all while completely avoiding the 'soap-opera' effect!

    Try it out; else your missing out!
    You can't have "absolutely smooth motion, all while completely avoiding the 'soap-opera' effect". The "soap opera effect" is simply watching content at a high framerate.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion...p_opera_effect

    Back in the days of analog TV, soap operas were shot directly on video (i.e. 59.94 Hz for NTSC or 50 Hz for PAL). People subconsciously associated the smooth motion with low-budget, since movies and even some high-budget TV programs were shot & edited on film.

    If you want smooth video on a PC, the only way I know (not to say there aren't others) is: https://www.svp-team.com/get/

    It's closed source, but free on Linux. On their home page, they have testimonials from Peter Jackson (Lord of the Rings director) and James Cameron (Terminator, Alien, Abyss, Titanic, Avatar, etc.)! So, certainly not all of Hollywood is against HFR!

    Comment


    • #72
      Originally posted by coder View Post
      You can't have "absolutely smooth motion, all while completely avoiding the 'soap-opera' effect". The "soap opera effect" is simply watching content at a high framerate.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion...p_opera_effect

      Back in the days of analog TV, soap operas were shot directly on video (i.e. 59.94 Hz for NTSC or 50 Hz for PAL). People subconsciously associated the smooth motion with low-budget, since movies and even some high-budget TV programs were shot & edited on film.

      If you want smooth video on a PC, the only way I know (not to say there aren't others) is: https://www.svp-team.com/get/

      It's closed source, but free on Linux. On their home page, they have testimonials from Peter Jackson (Lord of the Rings director) and James Cameron (Terminator, Alien, Abyss, Titanic, Avatar, etc.)! So, certainly not all of Hollywood is against HFR!
      And your saying all of this after having tried out my suggestion, right?

      Please, I know full well what the soap-opera effect is; and what you are suggesting with the "smooth video project" software is nothing else than what your TV is doing already either:
      Interpolating new frames from the already existing ones to fill out the screen's refresh rate (e.g. 23.976 FPS --> 60 FPS).

      No, what I'm talking about is simply blending the existing frames into each other; this way, no "new" frames are being produced, which has the following benefits:

      - easy to calculate (i.e. low resource usage)
      ​​​- no soap-opera effect(!) [yes, really; even if it's hard to grasp for your mind...]
      - NO UGLY ARTIFACTS (which even you admit as being noticable with your TV's 'advanced' interpolation algorithms!)

      Here, have a read next time before you start lessoning others:

      https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/wiki/Interpolation

      Comment


      • #73
        Michael
        Any particular reason You are not approving my response to coder ?

        Comment


        • #74
          Originally posted by Linuxxx View Post
          Michael
          Any particular reason You are not approving my response to coder ?
          Just funky spam queue, should be through in a minute when I go to clear out the legit posts.
          Michael Larabel
          http://www.michaellarabel.com/

          Comment


          • #75
            Originally posted by F.Ultra View Post

            HDR and HFR is in no way "quality features", all the movies shot above the proper 24fps (and note here that this card will support 4K60Hz) looks like ugly tv soap operas. However if that really is your fancy then yes you will have to look for a different card, even if they had added 2.1 support I have a hard time believing that the GPU on it would be able to push 48Gbps, let along decode any codec on that bandwidth.

            For anyone interested in why 24fps is better for movies, please see this Youtube by Filmmaker IQ:
            HDR and HFR are "quality features" for me in the way that they try to solve problems that there shouldn't be there in the first place or for so long.
            HDR improves the lightning / brightness in low light scenes making it closer to how we see in real life.
            HFR improves the clarity especially in high movement scenes to make it somewhat closer to how we see in real life, it eliminates that crappy blur.
            Just pause a 24 frames movies and see how crappy the image looks and that's what the eyes see normally, just faster.

            How can 24 FPS be better for movies but worse for everything else ?
            24 FPS was chosen almost 100 years ago because they have added also sound to the movie tape and increasing the frame rate to more than 24 FPS would make the sound weird at playback.
            This problem was solved in the meantime, but Hollywood sticked with 24 FPS because "Hollywood is cheap" not because 24 FPS is better.
            They don't want to consume 2.5 times more film for every shot, upgrade their expensive cameras, computers, storage space, etc.
            And how can 60 FPS be good only for Virtual Reality, gaming, sports, Reality Programming and not for movies?
            And the "Eye cannot see HFR" is pure crap!
            I bet the eye can see to at least 150 FPS.
            Just look on Youtube on guys who have HFR monitors and how they can tell the difference between 60 / 120 / 144 Hz.
            I'm sorry but even my phone can shoot at 60 FPS and I'm really amazed how well those videos look, how natural.
            Last edited by Danny3; 15 December 2019, 11:34 AM.

            Comment


            • #76
              Originally posted by coder View Post
              And yes, I also use my TV's motion interpolation, when watching 24 fps content. Once you get over the initial adjustment period, a fair-minded person cannot deny that it looks better (assuming a competent implementation with minimal artifacts).
              This part actually blows my mind. One evening some week ago when I was binging through the second season of Jack Ryan, I was constantly upset of how god awful it was filmed and had this whole "uncanny valley" feel until I noticed that the damn interpolation setting had been automatically enabled in a recent firmware update.

              Even though I have a hard time understanding how you can experience that it looks better I do acknowledge that you do and this is a subjective matter, however I do have a problem with "a fair-minded person cannot deny that it looks better". This is image manipulation and "better" is a subjective and not objective measure.

              edit: I have yet to see the Gemini Man, however since it's in 3D I can see that 120Hz helps there since 3D needs higher framerates due to how the 3D technology works.

              I see however that The Times did not enjoy the HFR:
              Giving the film one star, Kevin Maher of The Times was unimpressed with the script and the 120fps shooting, writing "It keeps every detail in the frame (background and foreground) in vivid, garish focus at all times. Besides being aesthetically repellent (it's like 1980s children's telly or the worst wedding video yet)" and called the de-aging "alarmingly unconvincing"
              Last edited by F.Ultra; 15 December 2019, 02:05 PM.

              Comment


              • #77
                Originally posted by Linuxxx View Post
                And your saying all of this after having tried out my suggestion, right?
                No, because that's not what I want.

                Originally posted by Linuxxx View Post
                Please, I know full well what the soap-opera effect is; and what you are suggesting with the "smooth video project" software is nothing else than what your TV is doing already either:
                Interpolating new frames from the already existing ones to fill out the screen's refresh rate (e.g. 23.976 FPS --> 60 FPS).
                Not exactly. The output is computed as a function of the input, but when the display rate is not an integral multiple of the input, it's doing more than just generating the "missing frames".

                BTW, my TV interpolates to 96 Hz.

                Originally posted by Linuxxx View Post
                No, what I'm talking about is simply blending the existing frames into each other; this way, no "new" frames are being produced,
                Right. That's exactly what I don't want [yes, really; even if it's hard to grasp for your mind...]

                Originally posted by Linuxxx View Post
                Here, have a read next time before you start lessoning others:
                Why don't you try to understand what people actually want, before you start to "lessoning" them.

                I'm not the one who has a problem with the "soap opera effect". As I said, it only looks weird until you get used to it. Then, you'll most likely prefer it, even if there are a few artifacts.

                Earlier tonight, I was just watching a remaster of a 54-year-old movie that looked phenomenal, with motion interpolation, and I didn't notice a single artifact in the whole thing. The amount of detail I could see was simply astounding. With the type of frame blending you suggest, it would've been a blurry mess. NO THANKS. Been there, Done that. Don't want.

                Comment


                • #78
                  Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
                  And the "Eye cannot see HFR" is pure crap!
                  Exactly! If the eye couldn't see faster than 24 fps, people wouldn't complain about the "soap opera effect". By virtue of their complaints, they're invalidating that whole line of argumentation.

                  Comment


                  • #79
                    Originally posted by F.Ultra View Post
                    I do acknowledge that you do and this is a subjective matter,
                    That's a point of disagreement, then. Because I think it looks objectively better. There will always be people with eclectic tastes, but I'm talking about the average person.

                    That said, there certainly could be issues with how your device implemented the process. Ideally, we'd be able to watch HFR source material and just skip any form of temporal interpolation, entirely.

                    Originally posted by F.Ultra View Post
                    edit: I have yet to see the Gemini Man, however since it's in 3D I can see that 120Hz helps there since 3D needs higher framerates due to how the 3D technology works.
                    The weird thing is that they filmed it in 3D @ 120 Hz. However, technical limitations in current theaters meant that it could only be shown in either 4k @ 60 Hz or 2k @ 120 Hz. Only a handlful of theaters in the US showed the 120 Hz version.

                    Originally posted by F.Ultra View Post
                    I see however that The Times did not enjoy the HFR:
                    Wow. What a loser. I'll bet he watched the movie just expecting to hate it. I would not trust other reviews buy this guy, since he clearly has trouble with objectivity.

                    It was a solid action film, IMO. Nothing too special, but I found the reverse-aging to be good enough that I wouldn't have paid it any mind, if I hadn't been aware of what they actually did. There were a couple points when it looked a touch weird, like maybe an unnatural micro-expression, during complex emotional sequences. Ironically, had it not been HFR, such glitches would've been much less noticeable.
                    Last edited by coder; 16 December 2019, 01:47 AM.

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                    • #80
                      coder
                      Keep enjoying your artifacts, then!

                      Also, to just assume that the interpolation I suggested would result in a "blurry mess" without having at least tried it out beforehand - well, let me just quote you:
                      >> WOW! What a loser... <<

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