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Initial Tests: Windows 10 vs. Ubuntu With NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 / GTX 1080 Ti / RTX 2080 Ti

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  • Initial Tests: Windows 10 vs. Ubuntu With NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 / GTX 1080 Ti / RTX 2080 Ti

    Phoronix: Initial Tests: Windows 10 vs. Ubuntu With NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 / GTX 1080 Ti / RTX 2080 Ti

    The latest in our GeForce RTX 2080 Ti Linux benchmarking is a look at how the NVIDIA Linux graphics driver performance on Ubuntu 18.04 is comparing to that of Microsoft Windows 10 when using these initial launch drivers. For additional perspective are also some basic Ubuntu vs. Windows NVIDIA tests on the GeForce GTX 1060 and GTX 1080 Ti.

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=26904

  • cybertraveler
    replied
    Originally posted by Weasel View Post
    No, stable means that with tomorrow's update, your experience will not be altered. If you have a deadline you're sure it won't be fucked up by an update. So it only gets under-the-hood fixes, security fixes and such. No UI revamps, no dependency changes, no ABI/API changes (which can break other apps, you don't know what the user uses his computer for). This is what professionals need, not your hobbyist digital artists. And when I mean professionals I mean those with access to studios not freelancers.
    Yep, and that kind of stability is a beautiful thing.

    I understand why some people don't get why stability is important to so many people. I started out using extremely unstable GNU/Linux environments. Stuff would constantly break and I'd constantly be fixing it. It didn't matter to me because I had no customers/users and my system wasn't necessary to sustain my livelihood. I actually learned a lot from the process of changing it and fixing it constantly. It was only later when I dealt with systems that other users or I depended on that I learned the true value of stability. It's really nice being able to have strong assurances that your OS will work every day and be a dependable base layer that you can use and build on top of for years.

    Leave a comment:


  • Weasel
    replied
    Originally posted by rabcor View Post
    I've never had an issue with 'spaghetti dependencies' you mentioned on rolling release distros;
    I did and 90% of the desktop users do.

    Your point?

    Originally posted by rabcor View Post
    which is exactly why I'm saying they should be the norm.
    Which is exactly why I'm saying they should not be the norm.

    Originally posted by rabcor View Post
    You will always have access to the latest versions of dependencies, you will never run into an issue where you need to upgrade or downgrade said dependencies, it will never affect your system. Shit will just work.

    I don't know what planet or time period you're from, but manjaro is STABLE just like you mentioned that it would NEVER be lol. That's exactly my whole fucking point mate. Think about it, the development of the biggest rolling release distros is centered almost entirely around ensuring stability without compromising on software updates, that's their #1 challenge and usually one of their top focus priorities. You're talking out of your ass it's like you haven't even tried a rolling release distro for the past half a decade or something, they aren't anywhere near as unstable as you make them out to be (in fact they're not unstable at all) and no they don't compromise on security updates either where the hell did you pull that out from? If anything they get security updates way faster than everyone else.
    I can't take someone seriously who doesn't even understand what STABLE means.

    It's always the kiddies who think it means "stability" as in "doesn't crash or kernel panic".

    No, stable means that with tomorrow's update, your experience will not be altered. If you have a deadline you're sure it won't be fucked up by an update. So it only gets under-the-hood fixes, security fixes and such. No UI revamps, no dependency changes, no ABI/API changes (which can break other apps, you don't know what the user uses his computer for). This is what professionals need, not your hobbyist digital artists. And when I mean professionals I mean those with access to studios not freelancers.


    Do you honestly want me to link you at least 10 articles where Windows 10 broke something on an update (the wonders of "Rolling Release") and people cursed Microsoft for it? Rolling Release is biggest bullshit in history of computing.

    Leave a comment:


  • rabcor
    replied
    Originally posted by Weasel View Post
    This is false. Only amateurs might be "starved" for that stuff, since they still need to find their "optimal style" (that's why they're amateurs to begin with). He was talking about professionals.

    That's the problem with Linux. If you want to update software you'll have to end up updating the entire fucking system due to spaghetti dependencies and ELF's retarded design. Well, without flatpak or snap.

    True, Windows 10 is way worse, but rolling release are also worse than a "stable" distro, because the "under the hood stuff" should be STABLE (in terms of changes, which means not many changes, only security fixes and bugs). A rolling release distro will NEVER provide that, and so it sucks as much as Windows 10's model. However, Windows 10 sucks more because Windows sucks more than Linux, and since they're otherwise equivalent (both rolling release crap), Linux rolling release is still better.

    But a stable distro is way better. If you use Wine or snap or flatpak on a "stable" distro, then you can get "latest software" without dealing with maintenance nightmares.

    There's nothing you can do on a rolling release distro without compromising all security updates at all, even if you have Wine or flatpak. You're forced to update your "under the hood" stuff. Disgusting. Rolling Release has no fix or workaround, so it sucks.
    You don't know what you're talking about, digital art is my thing, if anything, it's only the amateurs that aren't starved for that stuff. I have never seen a professional artist that doesn't use the latest version of their software, unless it's an amateur professional (which yes, is a thing in art, some shitty artists manage to make money off it), but the really good ones, I've literally seen them using alpha versions of their software if available all right, just to test out new features. I was talking about professionals too, and if there are any professionals I know well, it's digital artists.

    I've never had an issue with 'spaghetti dependencies' you mentioned on rolling release distros; which is exactly why I'm saying they should be the norm. You will always have access to the latest versions of dependencies, you will never run into an issue where you need to upgrade or downgrade said dependencies, it will never affect your system. Shit will just work.

    I don't know what planet or time period you're from, but manjaro is STABLE just like you mentioned that it would NEVER be lol. That's exactly my whole fucking point mate. Think about it, the development of the biggest rolling release distros is centered almost entirely around ensuring stability without compromising on software updates, that's their #1 challenge and usually one of their top focus priorities. You're talking out of your ass it's like you haven't even tried a rolling release distro for the past half a decade or something, they aren't anywhere near as unstable as you make them out to be (in fact they're not unstable at all) and no they don't compromise on security updates either where the hell did you pull that out from? If anything they get security updates way faster than everyone else.
    Last edited by rabcor; 10-07-2018, 10:33 PM.

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  • Weasel
    replied
    Originally posted by rabcor View Post
    Actually I think it might strongly depend on the professionals in question, for example, digital artists will definitely want to upgrade real-time, they may even use beta or alpha releases from time to time just to gain access to new features, they're quite literally starved for the stuff. I think much of the same applies for 3D artists. Even if it's a major version up date they will go and get it without hesitation. Whereas programmers might be more hesitant about that because the syntax can change.
    This is false. Only amateurs might be "starved" for that stuff, since they still need to find their "optimal style" (that's why they're amateurs to begin with). He was talking about professionals.

    Originally posted by rabcor View Post
    Anyhow what I mean about rolling release in the linux context isn't really system updates, it's software updates, the shit you use day-to-day, not the under the hood stuff like the kernel, nobody cares how frequently that's updated as long as it's stable, and stable it is. Rolling releases on linux tend to have the practice of having a stable repository and testing/unstable, most of the latest versions of software will go to the stable repository pretty fast but for core system elements they will stay unstable for a lot longer.
    That's the problem with Linux. If you want to update software you'll have to end up updating the entire fucking system due to spaghetti dependencies and ELF's retarded design. Well, without flatpak or snap.

    Originally posted by rabcor View Post
    Rolling release distros don't have to be as poorly planned as windows 10, most of them aren't.
    True, Windows 10 is way worse, but rolling release are also worse than a "stable" distro, because the "under the hood stuff" should be STABLE (in terms of changes, which means not many changes, only security fixes and bugs). A rolling release distro will NEVER provide that, and so it sucks as much as Windows 10's model. However, Windows 10 sucks more because Windows sucks more than Linux, and since they're otherwise equivalent (both rolling release crap), Linux rolling release is still better.

    But a stable distro is way better. If you use Wine or snap or flatpak on a "stable" distro, then you can get "latest software" without dealing with maintenance nightmares.

    There's nothing you can do on a rolling release distro without compromising all security updates at all, even if you have Wine or flatpak. You're forced to update your "under the hood" stuff. Disgusting. Rolling Release has no fix or workaround, so it sucks.

    Leave a comment:


  • rabcor
    replied
    Originally posted by GI_Jack View Post

    Real World Performance. I am sure if you are running Clear, or a tweaked Arch Gentoo, you can get spectacular results.

    Gamers are not going to figure out these distros and go tweak them. Either Fedora, Ubuntu, Mint, something that also functions as a general purpose desktop, GUI installed and just works with a game. That is real world performance.
    Those are fair points to an extent, but my point was that arch (and by extension manjaro) are released with a lot of tweaks already, especially manjaro, in other words manjaro users won't have to bother tweaking things it'll just be fast out of the box. That is real world performance enough to me.

    Manjaro even if it's arch based is gui installed, and just works out of the box with little to no terminal usage required, it works really impressively well out of the box to be honest, I switched over from arch because I was tired of manually tweaking things when I can have it out of the box anyways (it was a great learning experience though)

    Originally posted by CFWhitman View Post

    I didn't say you said just gamers want a rolling release. I was pointing out that other than hardcore gamers, some computer technicians, and some software developers, most people don't want a rolling release. Most professionals don't want the latest version of the software they use all the time. They would rather keep the version they're used to. Most of them upgrade about every other year or every other version unless forced by problems exchanging files. For most people a rolling release is not inviting. The people whom I support in AutoCAD versions have a subscription that allows them to upgrade with every version, but they still generally upgrade every other version because it's too much hassle to upgrade with every version. Lone users are different; some of them upgrade at every time they can, but more often they only upgrade kicking and screaming when they are forced to by a hardware failure or a format change.

    Most people don't have time to keep up on the latest developments in every program that they use. Most people have the attitude that if there is no noted shortcoming for them in the software they are using, then an upgrade isn't worth the hassle. People will read over feature lists of their most used software, and if they can't find a feature that seems important to them, they won't bother to upgrade (again, unless forced by some kind of interoperability issue). If they do find a feature that they've been waiting for or a fix for a bug that's been annoying them, then they'll upgrade if they can, but otherwise they usually don't want to bother.

    Most people that I deal with are not thrilled with the semi-rolling character of Windows 10. They tend to prefer Windows 7. Even if they want to upgrade a particular program, they'd prefer to keep it on Windows 7.
    Actually I think it might strongly depend on the professionals in question, for example, digital artists will definitely want to upgrade real-time, they may even use beta or alpha releases from time to time just to gain access to new features, they're quite literally starved for the stuff. I think much of the same applies for 3D artists. Even if it's a major version up date they will go and get it without hesitation. Whereas programmers might be more hesitant about that because the syntax can change.

    I actually agree that I would not be thrilled about the rolling character of windows 10's core OS, they force updates that break shit all the damn time, it's a fucking horrible OS (why do you think I'm on linux? Lol, I just didn't want to ever have to use that shit) but that's not a fault of the rolling release model, it's a fault of Microsoft having shit testing and quality assurance, something that does not plague linux, not even rolling release distros. You will find that on linux, rolling release distros will have the kernel lag a few versions behind with the latest kernel version only being available as part of the 'unstable branch' repositories.

    Anyhow what I mean about rolling release in the linux context isn't really system updates, it's software updates, the shit you use day-to-day, not the under the hood stuff like the kernel, nobody cares how frequently that's updated as long as it's stable, and stable it is. Rolling releases on linux tend to have the practice of having a stable repository and testing/unstable, most of the latest versions of software will go to the stable repository pretty fast but for core system elements they will stay unstable for a lot longer.

    It's by design significantly better than what they offer on windows 10, which is basically just an unstable branch with no stable option at all, it's absurd they can get away with that level of poor management.

    Anyhow, even if you're one of the professionals that prefers older releases for certain applications, it's not hard to keep old versions installed in rolling release distros. At least for arch and manjaro, they keep a backlog of pacakge versions in /var/cache/pacman/pkg. And this includes all things installed from official repositories You can even configure how many versions back it will keep, so if for whatever reason you want to downgrade a package that you may have accidentally updated or just tried and had some issues with, it's an easy thing to do.

    Rolling release distros don't have to be as poorly planned as windows 10, most of them aren't.
    Last edited by rabcor; 10-03-2018, 02:46 PM.

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  • cybertraveler
    replied
    Originally posted by CFWhitman View Post

    No. You are trying to be super-technical and catching him on a technicality. In reality it's pretty clear by the context and all of his remarks together that he was quite aware that Windows 10 is more like a rolling release, but he wasn't talking about Windows 10 in that sentence.
    I did not get that at all from reading his posts. If I did get that I wouldn't have called him out on that part.

    Leave a comment:


  • CFWhitman
    replied
    Originally posted by cybertraveler View Post

    Dude. It's ok to be wrong. Just admit it and move on.

    You're obviously talking about all Windows versions. Your sentence doesn't make sense otherwise. There is no Windows is general that a user can install or upgrade :P

    Chill out and squish that ego. We're all dumb humans learning and making mistakes along the way.
    No. You are trying to be super-technical and catching him on a technicality. In reality it's pretty clear by the context and all of his remarks together that he was quite aware that Windows 10 is more like a rolling release, but he wasn't talking about Windows 10 in that sentence. If someone said, "It has a start menu like Windows," I wouldn't start arguing because Windows 2.0, 3.1, 3.11, and 8.0 didn't have start menus, or argue that it's not a "start" menu when it doesn't use the word "start." I would know what the person meant and discuss their point rather than technicalities.

    Edit: If you want to point out that things have changed with 10, then it's easy to say, "Yes, except that Windows 10 represents a paradigm shift for Microsoft, and with it they switched to a development model closer to a rolling release." That would be perfectly reasonable.
    Last edited by CFWhitman; 09-30-2018, 02:22 PM.

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  • Weasel
    replied
    Originally posted by cybertraveler View Post
    Dude. It's ok to be wrong. Just admit it and move on.

    You're obviously talking about all Windows versions. Your sentence doesn't make sense otherwise. There is no Windows is general that a user can install or upgrade :P

    Chill out and squish that ego. We're all dumb humans learning and making mistakes along the way.
    Well I've no problems admitting my mistakes, I don't think this is one though since it's misunderstanding, but alright.

    BTW when I said "Windows in general" I meant when someone talks about Windows when they refer to all the versions (for example, "Windows has 90% desktop market share"), and in this case it cannot be considered a rolling release since it's more than just one "version" in that group they call "Windows", not only Windows 10.

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  • Weasel
    replied
    CFWhitman Amen.

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