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Initial Tests: Windows 10 vs. Ubuntu With NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 / GTX 1080 Ti / RTX 2080 Ti

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Weasel View Post
    How the fuck is Windows a rolling release when it has multiple different versions co-existing right now and "supported"? You can update Windows 7 without "upgrading" to Windows 10 (but then, a version number makes no sense, that's why there's no Arch Linux 7 and Arch Linux 10, because that's what rolling release is, NOT WINDOWS).

    It is literally like I said: It's exactly the opposite of your bullshit. And even amongst Linux users, rolling release idiots are the minority.
    It's pretty fair to call Windows 10 rolling release:

    But Microsoft went instead with Windows 10 because they wanted to signify that the coming Windows release would be the last "major" Windows update. Going forward, Microsoft is planning to make regular, smaller updates to the Windows 10 codebase , rather than pushing out new major updates years apart.
    source: https://www.zdnet.com/article/micros...as-windows-10/

    See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window...eature_updates

    See also: the actual Windows 10 user experience.

    I'm not advocating for rolling release distros. I think they have their place but their are situations where LTS-type distros are much more suitable.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by cybertraveler View Post
      It's pretty fair to call Windows 10 rolling release
      I said "Windows", not "Windows 10". This is not nitpicking, he said 90% (or more?) and Windows 10 is not even close to that, so no. Most people also hate W10's breaking updates ("rolling release"), but they're forced to put up with it.

      I mean, look at its pathetic market share when it was free for a year and it will soon be the only choice. The resistance against Windows 10 is massive. That's how much people hate rolling releases and mobile-themed garbage and all those W10 things that crap like GNOME and rolling release distros also share.

      I already said about W10 anyway... Here's my initial post on this subject, with emphasis now:
      Originally posted by Weasel View Post
      And yes it fucking happens on Windows, at least before W10, and guess which Windows version is still old as hell and 20 times more popular than Linux. The preferences are obvious. That's how much people hate rolling releases ("software as a service") and other crap W10 brought. Most are just forced to use in Windows land.
      So no I'm not backtracking or w/e, it's called facts.
      Last edited by Weasel; 09-28-2018, 06:11 PM.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by rabcor View Post


        Also, why ubuntu? why not something faster? Manjaro is real popular these days...
        Real World Performance. I am sure if you are running Clear, or a tweaked Arch Gentoo, you can get spectacular results.

        Gamers are not going to figure out these distros and go tweak them. Either Fedora, Ubuntu, Mint, something that also functions as a general purpose desktop, GUI installed and just works with a game. That is real world performance.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by Weasel View Post
          I said "Windows", not "Windows 10". This is not nitpicking, he said 90% (or more?) and Windows 10 is not even close to that, so no. Most people also hate W10's breaking updates ("rolling release"), but they're forced to put up with it.

          I mean, look at its pathetic market share when it was free for a year and it will soon be the only choice. The resistance against Windows 10 is massive. That's how much people hate rolling releases and mobile-themed garbage and all those W10 things that crap like GNOME and rolling release distros also share.

          I already said about W10 anyway... Here's my initial post on this subject, with emphasis now:So no I'm not backtracking or w/e, it's called facts.
          You said:

          "(but then, a version number makes no sense, that's why there's no Arch Linux 7 and Arch Linux 10, because that's what rolling release is, NOT WINDOWS)."

          If you misspoke that's fine, but I didn't misinterpret your words. "not windows", includes Windows 10. Windows 10 is rolling release.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by cybertraveler View Post
            You said:

            "(but then, a version number makes no sense, that's why there's no Arch Linux 7 and Arch Linux 10, because that's what rolling release is, NOT WINDOWS)."

            If you misspoke that's fine, but I didn't misinterpret your words. "not windows", includes Windows 10. Windows 10 is rolling release.
            No, Windows means "Windows in general". Rolling release means it doesn't even have a version in the first place.

            So "Windows in general" is clearly not a rolling release. You can't seriously compare it with real rolling release distros which literally have no versions and no "multiple versions co-existing" to begin with (which "Windows in general" does).

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            • #26
              Originally posted by Weasel View Post
              No, Windows means "Windows in general". Rolling release means it doesn't even have a version in the first place.

              So "Windows in general" is clearly not a rolling release. You can't seriously compare it with real rolling release distros which literally have no versions and no "multiple versions co-existing" to begin with (which "Windows in general" does).
              Dude. It's ok to be wrong. Just admit it and move on.

              You're obviously talking about all Windows versions. Your sentence doesn't make sense otherwise. There is no Windows is general that a user can install or upgrade :P

              Chill out and squish that ego. We're all dumb humans learning and making mistakes along the way.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by rabcor View Post

                I never said it was just gamers who want up to date software, I said it was 'most modern PC users' and meant it. Artists want the latest versions of their drawing software, video editors want the latest editing software, programmers want the latest Libraries and IDEs, musicians want the latest sound editing software versions... Etc. Everyone wants to have the latest version of shit, especially if they're using it professionally, and nearly without exception if they have already grown used to it, you say a lot of people are content with having outdated software, I would argue that they are also complacent. Also, don't forget, rolling releases still get an LTS kernel option; which is the most important element for a stable linux based OS in general.

                Sure, if all you use your computer for is web browsing, it might not be that important to have the latest version of your browser, and yeah, maybe not for music players either. But as soon as you do anything else on your computer, even if it's just watching videos, you're gonna see improvements from the latest versions of your video player, even if it's just better support for various formats. You 'can' just use VLC which 'usually' works, but if you want to squeeze the most quality you can get out of your videos, you're gonna need mpv and you're gonna need to tweak it's options quite a bit, and you're gonna need a recent version to get the latest features such as motion interpolation. Most people sure, may be unaware of that, but that makes them complacent and ignorant more than content, even if they are indeed content, they're only content because they don't know better.

                The same principle applies for various other things, new features to libreoffice, to krita/gimp/other painting software, speed improvements, bug fixes (bug fixes in particular will be most common, there's a decent chance that the latest version of your outdated software has had some bug that's bothering you fixed for a long while but you don't have access to the bug fix because you don't have access to the latest stable version) and of course, drivers. Even with all the things I've mentioned, every single point I've mentioned affects me, personally, how many points do you think I'm missing that would affect others who do different things?

                Basically, if you have a reason to use something more advanced than ChromeOS, you're almost definitely missing out on something that would be important to you if you're not using a rolling release system. And my point is, that anyone who doesn't want to be missing out on that important shit, needs rolling release.
                I didn't say you said just gamers want a rolling release. I was pointing out that other than hardcore gamers, some computer technicians, and some software developers, most people don't want a rolling release. Most professionals don't want the latest version of the software they use all the time. They would rather keep the version they're used to. Most of them upgrade about every other year or every other version unless forced by problems exchanging files. For most people a rolling release is not inviting. The people whom I support in AutoCAD versions have a subscription that allows them to upgrade with every version, but they still generally upgrade every other version because it's too much hassle to upgrade with every version. Lone users are different; some of them upgrade at every time they can, but more often they only upgrade kicking and screaming when they are forced to by a hardware failure or a format change.

                Most people don't have time to keep up on the latest developments in every program that they use. Most people have the attitude that if there is no noted shortcoming for them in the software they are using, then an upgrade isn't worth the hassle. People will read over feature lists of their most used software, and if they can't find a feature that seems important to them, they won't bother to upgrade (again, unless forced by some kind of interoperability issue). If they do find a feature that they've been waiting for or a fix for a bug that's been annoying them, then they'll upgrade if they can, but otherwise they usually don't want to bother.

                Most people that I deal with are not thrilled with the semi-rolling character of Windows 10. They tend to prefer Windows 7. Even if they want to upgrade a particular program, they'd prefer to keep it on Windows 7.
                Last edited by CFWhitman; 09-30-2018, 04:55 PM.

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                • #28
                  CFWhitman Amen.

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by cybertraveler View Post
                    Dude. It's ok to be wrong. Just admit it and move on.

                    You're obviously talking about all Windows versions. Your sentence doesn't make sense otherwise. There is no Windows is general that a user can install or upgrade :P

                    Chill out and squish that ego. We're all dumb humans learning and making mistakes along the way.
                    Well I've no problems admitting my mistakes, I don't think this is one though since it's misunderstanding, but alright.

                    BTW when I said "Windows in general" I meant when someone talks about Windows when they refer to all the versions (for example, "Windows has 90% desktop market share"), and in this case it cannot be considered a rolling release since it's more than just one "version" in that group they call "Windows", not only Windows 10.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by cybertraveler View Post

                      Dude. It's ok to be wrong. Just admit it and move on.

                      You're obviously talking about all Windows versions. Your sentence doesn't make sense otherwise. There is no Windows is general that a user can install or upgrade :P

                      Chill out and squish that ego. We're all dumb humans learning and making mistakes along the way.
                      No. You are trying to be super-technical and catching him on a technicality. In reality it's pretty clear by the context and all of his remarks together that he was quite aware that Windows 10 is more like a rolling release, but he wasn't talking about Windows 10 in that sentence. If someone said, "It has a start menu like Windows," I wouldn't start arguing because Windows 2.0, 3.1, 3.11, and 8.0 didn't have start menus, or argue that it's not a "start" menu when it doesn't use the word "start." I would know what the person meant and discuss their point rather than technicalities.

                      Edit: If you want to point out that things have changed with 10, then it's easy to say, "Yes, except that Windows 10 represents a paradigm shift for Microsoft, and with it they switched to a development model closer to a rolling release." That would be perfectly reasonable.
                      Last edited by CFWhitman; 09-30-2018, 02:22 PM.

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