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Initial Tests: Windows 10 vs. Ubuntu With NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 / GTX 1080 Ti / RTX 2080 Ti

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  • CFWhitman
    replied
    Originally posted by rabcor View Post

    I never said it was just gamers who want up to date software, I said it was 'most modern PC users' and meant it. Artists want the latest versions of their drawing software, video editors want the latest editing software, programmers want the latest Libraries and IDEs, musicians want the latest sound editing software versions... Etc. Everyone wants to have the latest version of shit, especially if they're using it professionally, and nearly without exception if they have already grown used to it, you say a lot of people are content with having outdated software, I would argue that they are also complacent. Also, don't forget, rolling releases still get an LTS kernel option; which is the most important element for a stable linux based OS in general.

    Sure, if all you use your computer for is web browsing, it might not be that important to have the latest version of your browser, and yeah, maybe not for music players either. But as soon as you do anything else on your computer, even if it's just watching videos, you're gonna see improvements from the latest versions of your video player, even if it's just better support for various formats. You 'can' just use VLC which 'usually' works, but if you want to squeeze the most quality you can get out of your videos, you're gonna need mpv and you're gonna need to tweak it's options quite a bit, and you're gonna need a recent version to get the latest features such as motion interpolation. Most people sure, may be unaware of that, but that makes them complacent and ignorant more than content, even if they are indeed content, they're only content because they don't know better.

    The same principle applies for various other things, new features to libreoffice, to krita/gimp/other painting software, speed improvements, bug fixes (bug fixes in particular will be most common, there's a decent chance that the latest version of your outdated software has had some bug that's bothering you fixed for a long while but you don't have access to the bug fix because you don't have access to the latest stable version) and of course, drivers. Even with all the things I've mentioned, every single point I've mentioned affects me, personally, how many points do you think I'm missing that would affect others who do different things?

    Basically, if you have a reason to use something more advanced than ChromeOS, you're almost definitely missing out on something that would be important to you if you're not using a rolling release system. And my point is, that anyone who doesn't want to be missing out on that important shit, needs rolling release.
    I didn't say you said just gamers want a rolling release. I was pointing out that other than hardcore gamers, some computer technicians, and some software developers, most people don't want a rolling release. Most professionals don't want the latest version of the software they use all the time. They would rather keep the version they're used to. Most of them upgrade about every other year or every other version unless forced by problems exchanging files. For most people a rolling release is not inviting. The people whom I support in AutoCAD versions have a subscription that allows them to upgrade with every version, but they still generally upgrade every other version because it's too much hassle to upgrade with every version. Lone users are different; some of them upgrade at every time they can, but more often they only upgrade kicking and screaming when they are forced to by a hardware failure or a format change.

    Most people don't have time to keep up on the latest developments in every program that they use. Most people have the attitude that if there is no noted shortcoming for them in the software they are using, then an upgrade isn't worth the hassle. People will read over feature lists of their most used software, and if they can't find a feature that seems important to them, they won't bother to upgrade (again, unless forced by some kind of interoperability issue). If they do find a feature that they've been waiting for or a fix for a bug that's been annoying them, then they'll upgrade if they can, but otherwise they usually don't want to bother.

    Most people that I deal with are not thrilled with the semi-rolling character of Windows 10. They tend to prefer Windows 7. Even if they want to upgrade a particular program, they'd prefer to keep it on Windows 7.
    Last edited by CFWhitman; 09-30-2018, 04:55 PM.

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  • cybertraveler
    replied
    Originally posted by Weasel View Post
    No, Windows means "Windows in general". Rolling release means it doesn't even have a version in the first place.

    So "Windows in general" is clearly not a rolling release. You can't seriously compare it with real rolling release distros which literally have no versions and no "multiple versions co-existing" to begin with (which "Windows in general" does).
    Dude. It's ok to be wrong. Just admit it and move on.

    You're obviously talking about all Windows versions. Your sentence doesn't make sense otherwise. There is no Windows is general that a user can install or upgrade :P

    Chill out and squish that ego. We're all dumb humans learning and making mistakes along the way.

    Leave a comment:


  • Weasel
    replied
    Originally posted by cybertraveler View Post
    You said:

    "(but then, a version number makes no sense, that's why there's no Arch Linux 7 and Arch Linux 10, because that's what rolling release is, NOT WINDOWS)."

    If you misspoke that's fine, but I didn't misinterpret your words. "not windows", includes Windows 10. Windows 10 is rolling release.
    No, Windows means "Windows in general". Rolling release means it doesn't even have a version in the first place.

    So "Windows in general" is clearly not a rolling release. You can't seriously compare it with real rolling release distros which literally have no versions and no "multiple versions co-existing" to begin with (which "Windows in general" does).

    Leave a comment:


  • cybertraveler
    replied
    Originally posted by Weasel View Post
    I said "Windows", not "Windows 10". This is not nitpicking, he said 90% (or more?) and Windows 10 is not even close to that, so no. Most people also hate W10's breaking updates ("rolling release"), but they're forced to put up with it.

    I mean, look at its pathetic market share when it was free for a year and it will soon be the only choice. The resistance against Windows 10 is massive. That's how much people hate rolling releases and mobile-themed garbage and all those W10 things that crap like GNOME and rolling release distros also share.

    I already said about W10 anyway... Here's my initial post on this subject, with emphasis now:So no I'm not backtracking or w/e, it's called facts.
    You said:

    "(but then, a version number makes no sense, that's why there's no Arch Linux 7 and Arch Linux 10, because that's what rolling release is, NOT WINDOWS)."

    If you misspoke that's fine, but I didn't misinterpret your words. "not windows", includes Windows 10. Windows 10 is rolling release.

    Leave a comment:


  • GI_Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by rabcor View Post


    Also, why ubuntu? why not something faster? Manjaro is real popular these days...
    Real World Performance. I am sure if you are running Clear, or a tweaked Arch Gentoo, you can get spectacular results.

    Gamers are not going to figure out these distros and go tweak them. Either Fedora, Ubuntu, Mint, something that also functions as a general purpose desktop, GUI installed and just works with a game. That is real world performance.

    Leave a comment:


  • Weasel
    replied
    Originally posted by cybertraveler View Post
    It's pretty fair to call Windows 10 rolling release
    I said "Windows", not "Windows 10". This is not nitpicking, he said 90% (or more?) and Windows 10 is not even close to that, so no. Most people also hate W10's breaking updates ("rolling release"), but they're forced to put up with it.

    I mean, look at its pathetic market share when it was free for a year and it will soon be the only choice. The resistance against Windows 10 is massive. That's how much people hate rolling releases and mobile-themed garbage and all those W10 things that crap like GNOME and rolling release distros also share.

    I already said about W10 anyway... Here's my initial post on this subject, with emphasis now:
    Originally posted by Weasel View Post
    And yes it fucking happens on Windows, at least before W10, and guess which Windows version is still old as hell and 20 times more popular than Linux. The preferences are obvious. That's how much people hate rolling releases ("software as a service") and other crap W10 brought. Most are just forced to use in Windows land.
    So no I'm not backtracking or w/e, it's called facts.
    Last edited by Weasel; 09-28-2018, 06:11 PM.

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  • cybertraveler
    replied
    Originally posted by Weasel View Post
    How the fuck is Windows a rolling release when it has multiple different versions co-existing right now and "supported"? You can update Windows 7 without "upgrading" to Windows 10 (but then, a version number makes no sense, that's why there's no Arch Linux 7 and Arch Linux 10, because that's what rolling release is, NOT WINDOWS).

    It is literally like I said: It's exactly the opposite of your bullshit. And even amongst Linux users, rolling release idiots are the minority.
    It's pretty fair to call Windows 10 rolling release:

    But Microsoft went instead with Windows 10 because they wanted to signify that the coming Windows release would be the last "major" Windows update. Going forward, Microsoft is planning to make regular, smaller updates to the Windows 10 codebase , rather than pushing out new major updates years apart.
    source: https://www.zdnet.com/article/micros...as-windows-10/

    See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window...eature_updates

    See also: the actual Windows 10 user experience.

    I'm not advocating for rolling release distros. I think they have their place but their are situations where LTS-type distros are much more suitable.

    Leave a comment:


  • Weasel
    replied
    Originally posted by rabcor View Post
    Lol, you're calling over 90% of PC users a 'minority'? please... You're forgetting to include users of other operating systems in your calculations bro. Every windows user, e.g. the vast majority of PC users, are used to rolling release. And once you get used to rolling release, nobody wants to go back to outdated crap.
    How the fuck is Windows a rolling release when it has multiple different versions co-existing right now and "supported"? You can update Windows 7 without "upgrading" to Windows 10 (but then, a version number makes no sense, that's why there's no Arch Linux 7 and Arch Linux 10, because that's what rolling release is, NOT WINDOWS).

    It is literally like I said: It's exactly the opposite of your bullshit. And even amongst Linux users, rolling release idiots are the minority.

    Leave a comment:


  • rabcor
    replied
    Originally posted by Weasel View Post
    Except it's not.

    Ah here come the rolling release advocates who think their minority point of view is the majority.

    It's exactly the opposite. Rolling releases are not ok for most people. Where the fuck do you pull this kind of shit from? They have always been in the minority.

    And yes it fucking happens on Windows, at least before W10, and guess which Windows version is still old as hell and 20 times more popular than Linux. The preferences are obvious. That's how much people hate rolling releases ("software as a service") and other crap W10 brought. Most are just forced to use in Windows land.

    You can't make this stuff up. Statistics speak for themselves.

    Rolling releases are stupid and only a minority of users like it (they're made, like most shit, to make life easier on the devs/maintainers, but NO USER GIVES A SHIT OF THAT). Get over it.
    Lol, you're calling over 90% of PC users a 'minority'? please... You're forgetting to include users of other operating systems in your calculations bro. Every windows user, e.g. the vast majority of PC users, are used to rolling release. And once you get used to rolling release, nobody wants to go back to outdated crap.

    Originally posted by CFWhitman View Post

    Most PC users are not hardcore gamers. A lot are not even casual gamers.

    One of the biggest issues I have with the people for whom I've provided a Linux installation is getting them to let me update their *buntu LTS distribution before it goes out of support and stops receiving security updates after four or five years. These people don't tend to do any serious gaming. Most people don't want to change anything unless they have a problem.

    Casual gamers are often content with the latest LTS release of Ubuntu, as long as they don't have hardware that is too new for it to be supported.

    Hardcore gamers are the most likely to update everything to the latest release or be on a rolling distribution. Hardcore Linux gamers are not a common thing.

    I sometimes maintain a rolling distribution somewhere, but I'm usually too lazy to bother. The most likely reason for me to upgrade further than the most recent LTS is because my hardware is too new for it to be supported, or supported well, by that distribution.
    I never said it was just gamers who want up to date software, I said it was 'most modern PC users' and meant it. Artists want the latest versions of their drawing software, video editors want the latest editing software, programmers want the latest Libraries and IDEs, musicians want the latest sound editing software versions... Etc. Everyone wants to have the latest version of shit, especially if they're using it professionally, and nearly without exception if they have already grown used to it, you say a lot of people are content with having outdated software, I would argue that they are also complacent. Also, don't forget, rolling releases still get an LTS kernel option; which is the most important element for a stable linux based OS in general.

    Sure, if all you use your computer for is web browsing, it might not be that important to have the latest version of your browser, and yeah, maybe not for music players either. But as soon as you do anything else on your computer, even if it's just watching videos, you're gonna see improvements from the latest versions of your video player, even if it's just better support for various formats. You 'can' just use VLC which 'usually' works, but if you want to squeeze the most quality you can get out of your videos, you're gonna need mpv and you're gonna need to tweak it's options quite a bit, and you're gonna need a recent version to get the latest features such as motion interpolation. Most people sure, may be unaware of that, but that makes them complacent and ignorant more than content, even if they are indeed content, they're only content because they don't know better.

    The same principle applies for various other things, new features to libreoffice, to krita/gimp/other painting software, speed improvements, bug fixes (bug fixes in particular will be most common, there's a decent chance that the latest version of your outdated software has had some bug that's bothering you fixed for a long while but you don't have access to the bug fix because you don't have access to the latest stable version) and of course, drivers. Even with all the things I've mentioned, every single point I've mentioned affects me, personally, how many points do you think I'm missing that would affect others who do different things?

    Basically, if you have a reason to use something more advanced than ChromeOS, you're almost definitely missing out on something that would be important to you if you're not using a rolling release system. And my point is, that anyone who doesn't want to be missing out on that important shit, needs rolling release.
    Last edited by rabcor; 09-28-2018, 11:01 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Michael
    replied
    Originally posted by Scellow View Post

    Ram: 2x8gb ram vs 16gb
    Driver: 411.63 vs 410.57

    That's not the same
    2 x 8 is 16... On Linux, I can only get the DIMM topology if running as root to access dmidecode, so user space processes can only report the overall RAM capacity. Where as under Windows, any process can nicely query it.That's what you see in the graph as it's all auto-collected; I wouldn't do something so stupid as to change out the RAM configuration during a test on the same system.

    On the drivers, both releases are the latest NVIDIA Windows/Linux drivers. There is never a Windows/Linux NVIDIA driver release at the same exact version number.

    Leave a comment:

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